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Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? #1505558
31/08/2014 18:17
31/08/2014 18:17
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,313
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Membership Secretary 215
Cooperman  Offline OP
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My job on the forum

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,313
Kent, South East
According to a news report I have read it seems the reason the parents fled was over the radiotherapy treatment the hospital proposed. Given the position of the tumour the parents asked for proton beam treatment but this was not available on the NHS.
I am not saying that taking the child out of the hospital in the way they did was a clever move but I can understand maybe their motives.

Last edited by Cooperman; 31/08/2014 18:18.

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Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505560
31/08/2014 18:33
31/08/2014 18:33
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Yes - I can empathise but maybe it would have been better if they'd been more open about it. Arrest is possibly overkill but then they have caused quite a lot of trouble.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505605
31/08/2014 22:59
31/08/2014 22:59
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 735
Yorks (near Rhubarb Triangle)
Robotrish Offline
Enjoying the ride
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 735
Yorks (near Rhubarb Triangle)
If you have a child with four months to live and you had heard of alternate treatments that may work what would you do? As far as I understand Southampton hospital were about to take full control of the of the child, closing the parents out which made the situation untenable for the parents

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505629
01/09/2014 08:14
01/09/2014 08:14
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,313
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline OP
Former Membership Secretary 215
Cooperman  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,313
Kent, South East
UK police have applied for an extradition warrant but I can't see what crime has been committed here or what charges can be made?
They can't be charged with kidnapping their own child can they?


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Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505630
01/09/2014 08:56
01/09/2014 08:56
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Roadking Offline
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Southampton, Hants
I watched the video the dad psoted on Youtube. If what he says is true, Southampton hospital (and 2 named consultants) haven't come out of it too well. Given our recent experience of an NHS hospital and consultants, it doesn't seem to unbelievable


"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505632
01/09/2014 09:15
01/09/2014 09:15

N
Nello
Unregistered
Nello
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N



I can't judge anyone in that position........... I just hope the lad gets better.....

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505641
01/09/2014 11:14
01/09/2014 11:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers Offline
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bockers  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
I can't judge them. What I do know is that you are railroaded down a particular path with treatment. I can see why as especially in the beginning you are pretty ignorant as to the choices open to you. Once a treatment path has been agreed it is very difficult to get it changed when you start learning about the pros and cons of the drugs and methods being used.

Looks like they wanted a change which fell on deaf ears.

More research is needed for children's cancer treatments. My work colleague set of a charity to do something about it.
http://www.christopherssmile.org.uk/

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505948
03/09/2014 00:16
03/09/2014 00:16

D
DanielTheManual
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DanielTheManual
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D



Quote:
The sledgehammer of the European Arrest Warrant is what we have now opened ourselves up to. Behind the twists and the turns, the interpretations of the law and the aims of the authorities and objectives of our criminal justice system, lies something really quite sinister. Just like the Kings, you, or I, could be arrested anywhere in Europe for something that is not even a crime – and held merely for questioning, perhaps for months.

In just a couple more months, the UK will opt fully into the European Arrest Warrant, alongside 34 other equally pernicious EU legal schemes, without any recourse to the general public. For a Government talking tough on reforming Europe, and blocking the handover of any further significant powers to Brussels, one of the biggest and most worrying transfers of your freedoms and your protections is about to happen under their watch.

When it was introduced, we were told the EAW was for terrorist offences, rape, murder, drug dealing and the like. Now it is used to pursue those who – perhaps misguidedly – are acting out of conscience. The slippery slope is before us.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505955
03/09/2014 01:23
03/09/2014 01:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,943
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
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Posts: 21,943
Aldershot
We have seen this quote before, please use your own brain rather than somebody else's.


16VT and X1/9 1500

We must all do our part for the planet.
I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
I even unplugged my own.
Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: PeteP] #1505968
03/09/2014 08:46
03/09/2014 08:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,837
Haslemere, Surrey
M
Mark_S Offline
Forum is my job
Mark_S  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,837
Haslemere, Surrey
The media attention on this story is doing my head in banghead censored suicide


997 C4S
Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505971
03/09/2014 09:40
03/09/2014 09:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
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Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
Media storm in a teacup;
Great sympathy for the family;
Police had very little option in the circs;

EAW scare-mongering red herring from usual knee-jerk source...

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505982
03/09/2014 10:54
03/09/2014 10:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,792
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Posts: 33,792
Berlin
May I summarise?

- child under intensive treatment removed without notice from hospital
- serious concern for life of child
- EAW useful mechanism to locate child, believed to be on continent
- parents and child located; child placed in local hospital, parents imprisoned by police (because of the arrest warrant)
- local council implement child protection order and make child ward of court
- police remove charges; parents released from prison
- council acts to vacate wardship (but this not likely to happen before the weekend for procedural reasons)

While one can have huge sympathy for the parents, one has to wonder about their thinking: their purported reason for going to Spain was to sell their property there to pay for treatment elsewhere. It hardly needed all the family, but even if they did choose to go, the whole thing could have been stopped had they told the hospital what they were doing and why.

This entire farrago has been caused by the parent's actions.


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Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: barnacle] #1505986
03/09/2014 11:28
03/09/2014 11:28
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers Offline
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Chertsey in the Thames
Originally Posted By: barnacle
....

This entire farrago has been caused by the parent's actions.


Well that is one conclusion the media would have us jump to. The reality is probably somewhere in between. Having been through the process I can also see that should you disagree with the treatment team it can be very difficult to get you concerns heard. The internet is awash with information and misinformation and they may have been lead by that. I still make the call that the parents were working in the best interests of their child but that may have been mis-guided.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505990
03/09/2014 12:01
03/09/2014 12:01
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,792
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
I agree - the parents thought they were acting in the best interest of the child, but I'm not convinced they chose the best way to do it (or even if the treatment they want is either suitable, or if suitable, better than what they're already getting).

As an aside - the internet is full of anecdotal information, and it makes everyone think they are an expert and better informed than someone working in the profession and who has studied for years.

As you say - it can be difficult to disagree with the treatment team, but they *are* on the whole the experts. You have to trust professionals sometime, in spite of the handful who have been shown to be less than professional.


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Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1505992
03/09/2014 12:13
03/09/2014 12:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
I'll still reserve judgement. Radiotherapy on a mature adult brain is massively risky, on a young developing one the risk is far far greater. Cancer treatment for children needs far more research, a treatment that can have longer term side effects may be fine for a 50yr old person but for a child it could effect the majority of their adult life. It is an area where parts of Europe are ahead of the UK.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1506017
03/09/2014 14:09
03/09/2014 14:09
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
A
ali_hire Offline
Forum is my life
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
I have no information other than that which is in the media and I haven't follows the story that closely.

However, I find it amazing that we question the recommendations of highly qualified doctors/consultants and think that we know better.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: ali_hire] #1506031
03/09/2014 15:25
03/09/2014 15:25
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Roadking Offline
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Roadking  Offline
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Forum is my life

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,144
Southampton, Hants
Originally Posted By: ali_hire
However, I find it amazing that we question the recommendations of highly qualified doctors/consultants and think that we know better.


Actually I consider challenging these highly qualified doctors/consultants is a good thing. The medical profession is another body where it is difficult to challenge the advice or treatemnt you receive, because it seems to close ranks against criticism, unless it has to deal with it.

Why belive once consultant is right if you get conflicting advice from another? Why assume either is right if a third has another opinion. I would not have wanted my kids to undergo thst treatment with it's possible side effects if I'd believed there was an alternative treatment which may have had considerably less chance of affecting cognitive function after.

After all this is a treatment not available on the NHS, so I would immediately question the validity of the consultant's opinon based on that constraint alone.

After all we know there are significant numbers of drugs available to prolong life expectancy of terminal illness sufferers which are not approved for use by NICE based on the cost to the NHS.

Incidentally Ms RK recently spent 2 weeks in the Queen Mary Hospital after a bad car crash. It has gone some way to undermine our faith in the NHS.

Last edited by Roadking; 03/09/2014 15:26.

"RK's way seems the most sensible to me". ali_hire 16 Dec 2010
Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1506043
03/09/2014 16:07
03/09/2014 16:07
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,079
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers Offline
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Chertsey in the Thames
Anyone who has ever worked as a salesperson for drug companies, Medical Sales Rep, will tell a different story and why you need to be aware of the drugs being prescribed.

For Cancers there are numerous different courses of treatments and a load more in clinical trials so making yourself aware of these then also causes you to question the course you or yours has been put on. If you have been in a meeting with two consultants who are arguing with each other over this it can create concerns and you may want a third opinion.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1506046
03/09/2014 16:24
03/09/2014 16:24
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
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ali_hire Offline
Forum is my life
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,294
Portsmouth
Ok, I concede.

Naturally I'm going be biased as I have strong ties to the NHS.

However, the body isn't an exact science and what works for one person isn't necessarily going to be right for another. It's when the medical professionals get blamed that really winds me up, although I appreciate that that doesn't appear to be happening here.

Re: Family of Boy arrested in Spain - Heavy handed? [Re: Cooperman] #1506170
04/09/2014 06:12
04/09/2014 06:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,483
Kent
Submariner Offline
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Submariner  Offline
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Kent
no one has mentioned as far as I have read the Family Court System...that is what lurks behind this complete debacle.


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