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Alfa GT #1548790
08/09/2015 14:33
08/09/2015 14:33
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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Serg1  Offline OP
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London, UK
Daughter wants to buy Alfa GT JTS. Does anyone wish to pass on any pros and cons about this model. It will help us both before she signs on the dotted line and hands over cash.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548808
08/09/2015 16:40
08/09/2015 16:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Staffordshire
I agree with the choice of a GT (I've had a Blackline for the last two years), but why is your daughter looking at the JTS? Do a Google search for "Alfa JTS engine problems"

Its not a well-regarded engine - not particularly powerful, not particularly reliable, not particularly efficient.

I would recommend your daughter drives a diesel before going for the JTS - the Cloverleaf especially

The diesel is punchy, especially when remapped (170bhp readily achievable) and quite economical (I get high 40s on my commute and mid 50s on a run) The diesel isn't particularly refined though, especially from cold, but the sound insulation is good, so at anything much above tickover, its more than bearable

Note that the diesels don't have a DPF, so there's far less worry about using them round town a lot. The EGR is a pain though, so well worth having it blanked and then mapped out.

Big plus points for me are - reliable (mines done 190+k), stylish, VERY practical (I had a full-size executive office chair in the back at the weekend) - its also a bit different - a welcome variation from the thousands of German rep-mobiles

negatives?

All GTs eat suspension wishbones. Rust can be a problem on some early ones (floorpan mainly). There's wind noise around the (frame-less) windows. Tracking is critical to avoid rear tyre wear. Its nowhere near as refined as the Brera, although its notably lighter (and thus more economical)

Of course, what she really wants (but doesn't know it yet) is the 3.2V6 - the last car with the famed Busso engine - can only go up in value now


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548809
08/09/2015 16:41
08/09/2015 16:41
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Staffordshire
PS - good buyers guides on the Alfaowner forum


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Nigel] #1548814
08/09/2015 17:09
08/09/2015 17:09
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Hyperlink Offline
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Watford, Herts.
Originally Posted By: Nigel
Of course, what she really wants (but doesn't know it yet) is the 3.2V6 - the last car with the famed Busso engine - can only go up in value now


if she can afford the petrol...

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548815
08/09/2015 17:18
08/09/2015 17:18
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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London, UK
Thanks Nigel very helpful.

Told her a diesel version would be better, I'll pass on your comments hopefully she will take your advice.

To push her in the right direction I'll look around for a Cloverleaf and take her to test drive it. Fingers crossed it works.

We did look at a 3.2V6, returned following day for a test drive to be told it had just been sold.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548829
08/09/2015 20:00
08/09/2015 20:00
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 853
East Anglia
one4seven Offline
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+1 for Nigels post for the Cloverleaf, mines mapped to around 195bhp with a boat load of torque.

Might be worth checking for clutch and flywheel jobs ifs its a high miler, don't suppose your daughter wants a £1100 bill for those two smile


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Ollie
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548885
09/09/2015 12:15
09/09/2015 12:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Staffordshire
I bought a genuine Alfa clutch and dual-mass flywheel for about £350 earlier this year, so they aren't as pricey as they used to be

Still a very good bargaining tool if its done more than 100k on its original clutch though....

Also consider the turbo - life seems to be around 100k - 150k - another strong bargaining point, or a huge plus if its been done recently


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1548939
09/09/2015 21:16
09/09/2015 21:16
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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She has now started to look at the Brera, which leads to a different question; which engine would be the best one to pick?

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549017
10/09/2015 18:43
10/09/2015 18:43
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 853
East Anglia
one4seven Offline
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The Brera is a lump and needs either the 20v diesel or 3.2 petrol to get going really - again, avoid the JTS.

The 3.2 in the Brera also isn't the Busso lump, it's a fairly middle of the road GM unit...

Totally different kettle of fish too maintenance wise - the sub frames are prone to rotting through, like the 159, so check those carefully.

Lot more refined than the GT but nowhere near as good to drive - I drove a load of each and settled for the 1.9 diesel GT. Best combo of sporty handling (not something the Brera can do with Prodrives help) power and economy.


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Ollie
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549082
11/09/2015 10:21
11/09/2015 10:21
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Yup - GT and Brera are very different animals

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549158
11/09/2015 22:22
11/09/2015 22:22

S
symonh2000
Unregistered
symonh2000
Unregistered
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The Brera suffers from having a Diesel particulate filter. On the 1.9 and 2.4 versions it can be troublesome as it is located quite a way back from the turbo and doesn't get enough heat to passively regenerate. It tends to clog up because of this. the 2.0 versions are close coupled (basically bolted directly to the turbo) and this is a far better and more reliable system as they run hotter in normal use.
It is a shame as the 2.4 engine is a belter. You can of course hollow out the DPF, but that isn't legal, and with a remap the 2.4 can make 250bhp plus easily. The JTS engines are all pretty rubbish IMO. The 2.0 was based on the old TS, but is worse in terms of just about everything. The 2.2 and 3.2 are based on GM blocks. The 2.2 is a bit unremarkeable and sufferes cam chain issues regularly, the 3.2 is a good engine but is thirsty and not as charismatic as the old Busso. It tends not to suffer as many cam chain issues as the 2.2 but when it does it is seriously expensive to fix.

I am currently running a 2.0 170bhp Diesel Giulietta, and it drives much more like a 147/156/GT than a 159. It isn't faultless but is a great car. Fastish, economical, looks good and was cheaper to buy than the mainstream porridge.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549190
12/09/2015 12:58
12/09/2015 12:58
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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Thanks to everyone this has been very helpful.

We're planning to see a GT 1.9 diesel later day. Let's hope it a good one.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549215
12/09/2015 22:50
12/09/2015 22:50
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,960
west bromwich
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coupedummy Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,960
west bromwich
If it's anything like our 16v jtd 147 inspect the oil cooler and pipes as ours dumped all its oil outside Mayzons parents house and are more expensive than a 20vts to replace.


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549266
13/09/2015 12:27
13/09/2015 12:27
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 836
Hereford
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HiraethHuw Offline
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Posts: 836
Hereford
Originally Posted By: Serg1
Thanks to everyone this has been very helpful.

We're planning to see a GT 1.9 diesel later day. Let's hope it a good one.


How did you get on, Serg? Did you both like it? What did it drive like?

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549288
13/09/2015 16:48
13/09/2015 16:48

S
symonh2000
Unregistered
symonh2000
Unregistered
S



Another thing to watch on the GT Diesels is the gearbox. They are not the strongest, and can develop grumbles and whines, especially if the car has been remapped.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549289
13/09/2015 16:54
13/09/2015 16:54
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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Serg1  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Drove 11.7 miles to view the GT which took 1 3/4 hours, one down side of living in London.

At first glance it looked good even though they hadn't washed it, under the dirt you could see it was metallic black. Inside did look very good and clean with red leather everywhere, we both loved that part.

Cleaned an area on the rear wing to see what condition the paintwork was in, then decided it looked better covered in dirt. Paintwork did look very sorry for it's self.

Loved the seats, very comfitable and supportive, would they fit in a coupe?

Thought all three peddles were a little too small, that's just me.

Engine and gearbox seemed to be in good condition. Under the bonnet all looked good and very clean for 90,000.

Test drive was fine other than the brakes, I suppose you might call them brakes, they decided when they wanted to work.

Clutch peddle was very heavy, driving in traffic was a killer on my left leg. Are they all heavy?

Noticed the milage indicator flashed all the time. What's that all about?

Bad points; all 4 Calipers and discs badly corroded and would need replacing very soon.

Exhaust past it's day and wouldn't last through next winter or it's next MOT, it would need a complete new system.

All four tyres needed replacing.

Never seen wheels so badly corroded, more corrosion than not. All the dealer had done purchased can of silver and sprayed over the corrosion.

Both Alfa badges had faded or various parts of the colourwork had chipped off.

Various sizes of light scratches and few small but deep bents to most panels, some in odd places like the roof.

Both bumpers and sills had cracks in.

Repair job to the rear wing above the wheel was the worse repair I have ever seem, they had filled the area but not sanded down just sprayed straight over in some areas the filler extended 3-4mm out from the wing. They also used this technique on the lower door.

Car was only 8 years old and priced at 3995.00.

So the search goes on!

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549311
13/09/2015 19:08
13/09/2015 19:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Staffordshire
Well done for walking away, although hopefully, driving the oil-burner will have proved that they are a better bet than the JTS - find a good one (Cloverleaf, preferably, or remapped Blackline) and you'll be much more impressed

Heavy clutch pedal is a well know sign of a dying clutch - £800+ job to sort out. Looking at the other issues, I'd say it needs £2k - £3k spending on it to get it sorted

Badges always fade - bloody annoying - mine are almost chrome now...


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549347
14/09/2015 06:36
14/09/2015 06:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,055
South Cambs
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Barmybob Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,055
South Cambs
A few years back I thought about a GT and looked at several cars for sale at Traders and one private sale.

To me it seemed that the GT was either a poor quality car or they are just commonly subject to having their mileage adjusted. I had never seen so many sub 60,000 mile cars in such poor condition crazy

I gave up on the GT and picked up a really cheap and newer 156, with the horrible JTS lump. The 156 at least looked like a car that had covered the indicated 60K miles.

At 110K it still looks better than the GT's I viewed, and for £3,500 under budget too.


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549548
15/09/2015 21:39
15/09/2015 21:39
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,276
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
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Posts: 3,276
West Berks
I guess the GT appeals to a younger person who parks it on the urban street so it gets the parking scrapes, kerbing etc. you'd expect.

I'm loving the computer - only just found it the other day and currently trying for 800 miles on a tank of diesel. Got an entire Jamie Cullum's Jazz hour as I drifted home behind a DHL lorry this evening.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: skinflint] #1549557
15/09/2015 22:42
15/09/2015 22:42
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Staffordshire
Originally Posted By: skinflint
currently trying for 800 miles on a tank of diesel.


That would be impressive - my best is 724 giving 55mpg for the tank.

I reckon 800 is possible, but would involve a very gentle cruise on the motorway for the vast majority of it. I can get the trip computer into the high 60s / low 70s if I slipstream a suitable truck - would give a theoretical 900 miles on a tank


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549559
15/09/2015 22:48
15/09/2015 22:48
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 912
London, UK
Serg1 Offline OP
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London, UK
Wow that's great mpg. If my daughter ever finds a GT that's worth buying she will not be filling up that often.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549576
16/09/2015 09:17
16/09/2015 09:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,367
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Staffordshire
Originally Posted By: Serg1
Wow that's great mpg. If my daughter ever finds a GT that's worth buying she will not be filling up that often.


It takes effort to get it that high....

I did Midlands to Amersham and back on Monday - cruised at an indicated 85 and got stuck in several traffic jams on the way down - averaged 51mpg.

When I worked in central Birmingham, the average was nearer 45mpg

I think it would be difficult to get it below 40 for any journey over 10 miles and impossible to get it below 35


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Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549645
16/09/2015 21:48
16/09/2015 21:48
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
Commuting to the new office in West London I'm stationary on the M25 for half the journey, and still making 48 or more.

On the other hand, six hundred miles to Skye with a quarter of a tank left...


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549647
16/09/2015 22:15
16/09/2015 22:15
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,276
West Berks
skinflint Offline
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West Berks
I'm about 270 miles in now.

National Express coaches today smile Probably time to download The Divine Comedy's "National Express" to complete the experience.

Average MPG is 58.1, remaining range is about 550 miles but it jumps around a bit so it might or might not be on.

Barnacle - your 48 MPG seems similar to my experiences - as the traffic slows down and becomes more closely grouped the economy improves. I thought the speeding up and slowing down would mess it up but it doesn't.

Anyway lots of hassle for an extra 10MPG - I think I'll do this once and then return to the normal enthusiastic style.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549653
16/09/2015 23:08
16/09/2015 23:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
To clarify - I don't have the GT, but I have the same engine in a Bravo JDT.

The trip to Skye - including 200 miles of A-roads and 400 miles of motorway - ended up at 57mpg and an average over the whole trip of 57mph.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549655
16/09/2015 23:28
16/09/2015 23:28
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,276
West Berks
skinflint Offline
I need some sleep
skinflint  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,276
West Berks
That's really good going - quite a good average speed too.

Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549675
17/09/2015 07:34
17/09/2015 07:34
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
Quite - I don't think we went above 80 anywhere, even with Mrs 'Stirling Moss' Barnacle driving; at the end of the M74 the meter was showing 64mpg.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549819
18/09/2015 01:04
18/09/2015 01:04
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 416
uk
OnlyItalian Offline
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uk
Alfas with GM engines. It breaks my heart!


"Proud owner of LE141 and a 99 VIS broomie "
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549833
18/09/2015 07:38
18/09/2015 07:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
Well, the other way around, sort of - the JTD was a largely Fiat product that GM acquired in the merger, before they unmerged later. The same engine is in diesel Saabs, too.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: Alfa GT [Re: Serg1] #1549851
18/09/2015 11:06
18/09/2015 11:06
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Watford, Herts.
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Hyperlink Offline
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I think the comment may be more related to the v6 GM lumps in Breras et al in stead of a proper Busso.

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