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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576336
08/06/2016 15:45
08/06/2016 15:45
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Hoops82
Unregistered
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Hoops82
Unregistered
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Good work chaps, The hand calcs from hanger and gimmo are sound but polar moment of inertia only allows for the torsional stresses, we must consider bending moments across all of the pivot points along the bar and the ultimate equivalent stress created at the min bend (transition) radius as Nigel has suggested.
I have built a 2D model to calculate the maximum permitted stress relative to these moments as well as the equivalent deflections one would expect (based on a non integrated approach, i.e. a rough approximation that will over estimate by approx 10% according to empirical evidence). As soon as I get some data i can compare materials and dimensions with the predicted deflection for the original bar under identical loads.
If someone can provide the following for the materials of the original bar, eibach and others then i might be able to assist with comparing to the proposed hanger bar: Youngs modulus for fabrication material Poisson Ratio for fabrication material Ultimate Elasticity Stress (can use Ultimate tensile instead) lengths of levers- Droplink to rear torsion bar - length of bar including around bends - Length of rear torsion section -Length of lever across bar from droplink - length of lever along arm from drop link - Min radius of bend at transition point (where lever arm connects to rear torsion section)
The main assumptions in my model are: symmetry of bar (not a terrible assumption in the coupes case) The link length between the two sides carries all of the torsional stress (empirical studies have shown this) The arms of the bar carry all of the bending stress between the drop links and the (again, load cell proven)
Matching the bends of the original is desirable but if there is a way to make it as straight and symmetrical as possible whilst clearing the original parts then that can be shown to be beneficial from a theoretical perspective.
All of this said, I expect Nigels empirical opinion and qualitative understanding on the many set ups he has run could prove to be the most realistic.
Anyway, i'd like to try my best to help if I can.
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576353
08/06/2016 18:57
08/06/2016 18:57
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,799 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club member 259
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Club member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,799
In the coupe.
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Having just watched a whiteline you tube video. It seems that an adjustable arb can be achieved by giving a choice of the amount of the end fixing holes as opposed to just one. By moving it back or forward using the different holes it can raise or lower the torsion. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QyMgB4v-tZ8&autoplay=1
Last edited by magooagain; 08/06/2016 19:00.
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: magooagain]
#1576373
08/06/2016 21:22
08/06/2016 21:22
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
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Having just watched a whiteline you tube video. It seems that an adjustable arb can be achieved by giving a choice of the amount of the end fixing holes as opposed to just one. By moving it back or forward using the different holes it can raise or lower the torsion. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QyMgB4v-tZ8&autoplay=1 correct - not exactly rocket science The problem on the Coupe is that the front ARB has single drop-link mount points on the end of the ARB - not much option for different mount points Also, on the rear, the ARB is fixed to the rear radius arms, so adjustability would be "challenging" Can't believe its not possible though
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576452
09/06/2016 13:16
09/06/2016 13:16
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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ARBs ready to be shipped  Note: I understand every doubt, about torsion, rigidity, stiffness etc.. But.. did you evere take on hands, the OEM rear anti roll bar? It is hollow, and very very light! and full of rust! I think is not made by incredible material 
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: ]
#1576461
09/06/2016 14:18
09/06/2016 14:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
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Ready to be shipped?  The research & development stage was fairly rapid then....  But.. did you evere take on hands, the OEM rear anti roll bar? It is hollow, and very very light! and full of rust! I think is not made by incredible material I think my point has been missed.... It doesn't matter how thick or light the original Coupe ARB is - its the effect it has on handling. Unless you have accurately measured the torsional resistance of the original ARB and then produced a new ARB with a known increase in torsional resistance, then you have achieved nothing. Just knowing that the new ARB is "stiffer" is pointless at best and dangerous at worst. Until you have driven a Coupe with a too-stiff rear ARB, you would not believe how dangerous it could be. Think about what lift-off oversteer feels like at 120+ mph - its not fun. So - a simple question - what changes have been made compared with the original ARBs?
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576463
09/06/2016 14:24
09/06/2016 14:24
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pippoinzaghi
Unregistered
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pippoinzaghi
Unregistered
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it will need a serious test on track made by affordables drivers but i guess there's plenty of room for upgrading the OEM one
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576471
09/06/2016 15:03
09/06/2016 15:03
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,309 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
Club member 1482
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Club member 1482
My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,309
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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I spoke to these people about roll bars and they said they would be able to make an adjustable one - Cornering Force - the reasons I didn't proceed was that they had a very long waiting list and the cost for a one-off was high. Once one was made subsequent bars would be able to be much cheaper of course.
Andy
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576473
09/06/2016 15:48
09/06/2016 15:48
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Remember that DNA racing in italy can make the bars, but they will cost 180euros + vat each one! And they want an order for 30 pieces for bar. Finger cross for hangar work, I can help him sending mine, other I can not do 
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1576977
13/06/2016 23:05
13/06/2016 23:05
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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My arb were shipped to hangar today!
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Re: front and rear ARB
[Re: hangar1138]
#1577022
14/06/2016 13:52
14/06/2016 13:52
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Gimmo
Unregistered
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Arb arrived to hangar. Work can start!
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