Not immediately, but hopefully in a few months, we are thinking of getting one of the above as our own transport for travelling around the Cotswolds doing estimates on customers' cars.

We absolutely adore our MkII Panda 4x4, but it is a bit of a strain taking it on longer journeys and our territory can be an hour from end to end. We intend to keep it (and get a twin) as courtesy cars, but we'd like something a bit more comfortable (the Panda plays hell with MrsC's back), whilst keeping the 4x4 capability and (from a business perspective) upgrading the image. We do have the Jaaaaag, but it's not exactly perfect for the job!

We are nowhere near looking at new, or even recent, but would we be mad to go for something like a 10-year-old model?

I would want the highest spec possible (HSE?), but not the petrol version. Not sure about manual/auto.

Anyone have any experience?

Something else....

The later ones are very expensive and the earlier ones aren't very good. They benefit hugely from the badge-effect of the "proper" Land Rovers like the Discovery, but IMHO, it simply isn't deserved - they just don't cut it

If you want a decent car, with some half-decent off-road capabilities AND some decent reliability, go Japanese (Rav4, Outlander, CRV, even Vitara)

Something slightly left-field would be the 4x4 variant of the Skoda Yeti - brilliant car

We went through all the same choices when my wife was looking for a mid-size SUV - due to the size of the dog, many of the above were discounted and we eventually bought a Volvo XC60, which we are extremely happy with.

Listen to Nigel that is all.

Yup - Discoveries of that era were very poor (Land Rover used my brother as an unofficial tester) so I’ve no reason to think the Freeloader was any better.

Long way of saying Listen to Nigel

Right, so not a ringing endorsement then...?!
Shame, because MrsC loves a Landy, but I'd rather eat my own liver than get another Defender! The others are all too big and expensive. I'll try to convince MrsC, but if not, I'll try to find one that's less rubbish!

We've got a Freelander 1 with the BMW diesel engine and it is a good car, comfortable for long journey, has been as reliable as I would expect of any car used for 15-20k miles per year and now on somewhere over 150k in total. Haven't looked at what is important on a Freelander 2 but on the 1 the main check is that the centre viscous coupling has been replaced at 70k miles as the oil goes off and that can then cause problems for the rear diff and intermediate reduction drive (the bit that makes it 4wd). Reconditioned VCU is about £200 and takes less than an hour to fit.

I'll counter the harbingers of doom and say that issues the cars may have had when new will all be sorted and they can be very reliable cars, but there are good and bad as with anything. To some extent the worst things on ours are BMW related issues rather than LR.

Thanks Andy.

Freelander 2's suffer from whining on the rear axle/transfer once they hit the 60-90k mark. I think the later ones are better, but when I took an 08 plate to our local Land Rover specialist, he told me that its a common problem on them at that age and mileage.

I have owned a couple of discovery,s in the past but were early models and very reliable and excellent tow cars.
I had the misfortune to use a td5 disco for a few weeks and it was nothing but trouble to the owner and couldn't tow anything substantial.

If I were to be in the market for a small 4x4 the freelander would be on my radar but it would need a decent history ,but ultimately I would prefer a Toyota of some sort or Isuzu though I don't know much about newer models.

I was looking for a freelander and the eD4 version is 2wd and should be more reliable. Ultimately decided against as I needed something 100% reliable. If i was buying now it would be an XC90 because from what I can tell everyone has one and they are reliable.

Yup - we very nearly bought an XC90, but TBH, its a big beast of a car and the model we were looking at is now a bit dated

We ended up with the XC60 as its quite a bit more modern inside

The 5-pot diesel engine is pretty good (for a diesel). We sought out the more powerful version - 212bhp and 420 torques. It'll remap quite nicely when we fancy it - 250+ bhp and 500+ torques

We're rather chuffed with it - I'll be driving it to LeMans next month - three-up with loads of camping kit

Mrs MRS wanted an XC90 until she drove one. It’s impressive that they say that no-one has ever been killed in an XC90.

Everyone that’s been hit by one has died however....;)

Interesting discussion, but I suspect largely irrelevant due to our rather puny budget, which will struggle to hit much more than 6 grand.

Very left field - Merc R Class. AWD and cavernous. Should be within your budget (they were when I bought that E Class you helped me with).

Hmmm, I always liked the R Class! It always seemed so... Pointless!
Auto Trader here I come...!

You're not kidding.... Surely one of Merc's biggest "misses" - how many did they sell? HowManyLeft says there were never more than 4,000 of all variants

Jim - your budget would get a pretty decent XC90 - just be ready for the slightly "boaty" handling....

There are a few other tidy looking 4x4 diesels out there. Any of these appeal?

BMW X3: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...72pd&page=1

Mazda CX-7: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...1500&page=1

Toyota RAV4: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...1500&page=1

Suzuki Grand Vitara: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...1500&page=2

Honda Cr-V: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...1500&page=2

Subaru Forester: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/...72pd&page=3

Mmmm - Forester - another good car

Jim - does it have to be SUV-style? If not, consider a 4x4 estate - BMW X-Drive, Audi AllRoad, Volvo XC70 or even (if you can find one), Alfa 159Q4

would not recommend 159 for any 4 x 4 duties - suspension components wear quickly, and underside rusts away like anything...

Go to Greater China and they are everywhere. I think they were for the US market and they are certainly fugly - but obviously have a niche because they are E Class estate money. I decided on the E Clsss myself

Word of warning on Subaru Forrester's in diesel flavour, avoid like the plague pre 2010 models, they have a well known oil pick up issue which unless meticulously serviced with the correct oil, clog up and kill the engine, effectively writing off the car. Subaru are aware of it, but refuse to rectify. Its a shame as I found it to be a well equipped and comfy car with bags of room and quite quick.

Not to sound full of doom and gloom, but Rav4 diesel pumps are a fortune (£1200 plus fitting) and not unknown to fail...

Cheverolet Captiva/Vauxhall Antara commonly suffer with transfer box failure around 60k, (£900 repair) so steer clear of those...

You can see the car dealer in me coming out in these posts cant you? Or maybe not, since I am telling you not to buy!

On a brighter note, I would look at the Honda Cr-V... Step this way sir!

Uh-oh...

Thanks again everyone - some very interesting ideas. I think the XC90 and similar (R-Class, etc.) are just too big. Although we want something better for long distances than the Panda, we don't want to get too far away from the ability to pull over in the face of oncoming Range Rovers.

MrsC and I hate Hondas (blame the Jazz), so the CR-V is a non-starter.

One thing I've been struck by is that for £5k you can get an X3 with roughly half the mileage and the same age as a Freelander 2. Doesn't that make the BMW a no-brainer between the 2? Or are X3's as dodgy as the Land Rover?

Land Rovers and Range Rovers are trendy these days and hold their value well regardless of reliability. Even here in Germany, the later ones are at the top of the residuals tables.

For the X3, there is some info here: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/bmw/x3-e83-2004/?section=good

A bit more research seems to indicate that the 3.0sd X3 is a pretty beefy creature, especially in 286bhp M-Sport guise. Is the twin turbo diesel engine prone to any nasty surprises at high mileages?

Check the timing chain and date / mileage due when it should be replaced.

I dont know if it applies to all BMW's but my brothers 5 series timing chain was a £1,500 job should should have been done at 100k ish miles. His car went to 200k miles no problem without bothering to change it.

The 335d (twin turbo) block is good, a very good engine. The only issues I know of are big turbo eating bits of the little turbo. Injectors and high pressure pumps.. but that's a possibility on any car

Thanks guys. In the meantime, I'm hoping to buy a second Panda courtesy car. Sadly not a 4x4 this time...

For most applications the 2wd is a better car, its quicker.. better on fuel, cheeper to tax...

god I miss my panda

Volvo XC60 = FL2