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Coupe sunroof repair/replacement #1620339
11/05/2018 22:47
11/05/2018 22:47

F
F1ANG
Unregistered
F1ANG
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F



Hi guys & girls.

I've got a couple of questions for anybody with knowledge of coupe sunroofs...

Basically I'm having some paintwork done on my coupe, the sunroof has always been fully functional, and reasonably water tight (has leaked a little in the past, but only ever after a torrential downpour and if I've parked it on a slant, nose facing down etc) anyway i supplied the painter with a new genuine sunroof seal to fit, Hoping it would then withstand any future heavy rain fall.

The painter contacted me today asking if I could get another sunroof glass, because under the seal, the metal around the glass had seriously corroded (odd to me, because there's no other rust anywhere on the car!) So knowing I had a full spare sunroof assembly from a low mileage car, I pulled it out the garage this evening to inspect.

After stripping the seal of this spare unit, much to my dismay, it was exactly the same! To the eye with the seal on looked absolutely perfect, then under the seal, literally nothing but flakey rust!

So my questions, to anybody with knowledge on the following:

1) is it possible to buy new glass replacements? If so where from?

2) is it possible to remove the metal from the glass, treat and/or replace as necessary?

3) are there any aftermarket sunroofs that would be a direct replacement, and still do the same functions? Tilt, tilt + slide etc...

Worth mentioning there is no other rust to be seen anywhere else on the entire sunroof mechanism (only on the metal around the glass) so I'm guessing they're prone to corrosion there.

Any help / advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

P.s. have you checked your sunroof lately?

Angelo.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620340
12/05/2018 02:52
12/05/2018 02:52
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,596
Malaysia..Glasgow at heart
Kelv27 Offline
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Kelv27  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,596
Malaysia..Glasgow at heart
Angelo,

This is the exact reason why your dad sent me a sunroof the last time. As far as i know, there isn't any replacement glass/frames available.

I also looked at how the frame could possibly be repaired..but the difficult part is that the frame has a small metal lip in which the seal 'hooks' on to. In most cases, this lip is totally gone and disintegrated.

I'm not sure if there are any aftermarket sunroofs out there. If there is, I would imagine that the sizing would be slightly off anyway. Probably easier to delete the sunroof in its entirety.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620342
12/05/2018 06:58
12/05/2018 06:58
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
H_R Offline
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H_R  Offline
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Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
I don't see it being a problem making new frames that fit and work and don't look too unsightly!
However the biggest problem i think would be removing the frame from the glass without damage, or welding the lip without damaging the glass
perhaps we need to have metal panel roofs fabricated as the only viable option?

I have 2 sunroofs one has only minor corrosion on the lip on just one corner but too scared to weld it incase it damages the glass, the other spare is a bi worse but not had any time to play with them

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Kelv27] #1620371
13/05/2018 08:29
13/05/2018 08:29

F
F1ANG
Unregistered
F1ANG
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F



Originally Posted By Kelv27
Angelo,

This is the exact reason why your dad sent me a sunroof the last time. As far as i know, there isn't any replacement glass/frames available.

I also looked at how the frame could possibly be repaired..but the difficult part is that the frame has a small metal lip in which the seal 'hooks' on to. In most cases, this lip is totally gone and disintegrated.

I'm not sure if there are any aftermarket sunroofs out there. If there is, I would imagine that the sizing would be slightly off anyway. Probably easier to delete the sunroof in its entirety.


Yeah cheers kelv, you got lucky there mate, finding an immaculate one from a UK car! I've no idea how the frame could be repaired, as you say that lip would be almost impossible to fabricate.

I think I'm just going to pull the seal off the one that's on the car, treat the remaining metal and refit the seal as best I can, if it works it works, if not... Back to the drawing board and I'll have to hunt for a replacement.

I'd never delete the sunroof, as it's partly the reason I bought the car, absolutely love them, specially right back on full tilt, matching the arch lines of the car love

I'll know more tomorrow, as the body shop is back open then, I'll send you some pics on FB thumb

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: H_R] #1620372
13/05/2018 08:34
13/05/2018 08:34

F
F1ANG
Unregistered
F1ANG
Unregistered
F



Originally Posted By H_R
I don't see it being a problem making new frames that fit and work and don't look too unsightly!
However the biggest problem i think would be removing the frame from the glass without damage, or welding the lip without damaging the glass
perhaps we need to have metal panel roofs fabricated as the only viable option?

I have 2 sunroofs one has only minor corrosion on the lip on just one corner but too scared to weld it incase it damages the glass, the other spare is a bi worse but not had any time to play with them


I think everybody with a sunroof is going to be looking for some sort of viable option over the course of the next few years.

I see what you mean about damaging the glass, and it's not like it's a straight bit of glass you could easily replace either, as it's curved.

I'm going to take my spare one to the body shop tomorrow, so the guy can have a look at it, see if it can be removed / fixed 'some how'

I'll update on here when I know more.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620379
13/05/2018 12:07
13/05/2018 12:07
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,660
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Offline
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Posts: 16,660
Auld Reekie
This has to be a common problem which has been treated in many ways from stopping the whole shebang up to complete refurb/exchange with (luckily) better condition part.

If it weren't for the evident hassle involved I'd be glancing in FCSS direction to investigate a group buy but I fear it might be pretty costly.


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620388
13/05/2018 21:25
13/05/2018 21:25
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 343
bristol
mr_nobut Offline
Making a profit
mr_nobut  Offline
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Posts: 343
bristol
Angelo, i’ve got the same problem. Took my seal off and replaced with a new only to find the metal frame below rusted away.

I’ve been looking for a few years but unfortunately even ‘the. spare’ ones i’ve bought seem to have suffered the same as it must be a weakness in the frame manufacture.

Unfortunately after many hours of reasearch I found that no one else makes a replacement/similar one as the coupe as it is unique.

I have toyed with fitting a bigger new one but the cost is massive!!

i’d be interested in hearing if you do find a solution, i’m waiting on another second hand one but imagine it will be similar!!

I love my sunroof too but it’s starting to drip!! rolleyes


inky goodness!!
Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620412
14/05/2018 09:35
14/05/2018 09:35
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 975
Behind Enemy Lines
Master_Mariner Offline
Club member 583
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Posts: 975
Behind Enemy Lines
My sunroof likewise has started to corrode under the sides of the sunroof.

I have purchased a replacement unit- but presume the original issue that causes this will only rear its head in any new unit in the years to come.

I suspect the answer may come form a specialist/sunroof company who can create the glass and bind the fittings on in manufacture - if the current glass proves to weak to restore in its current form.

For info-in a non scientific test over the weekend-the spare sunroof unit felt not far off the weight of a passenger seat.

So a fair amount of top heavy weight in sunroof coupes. But imagine you would have to be going some to actually feel it that much on the road.

Regards

MM

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Edinburgh] #1620447
14/05/2018 16:02
14/05/2018 16:02
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,114
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,114
FCSS 01684 593187
Originally Posted By Edinburgh

If it weren't for the evident hassle involved I'd be glancing in FCSS direction to investigate a group buy but I fear it might be pretty costly.


I have been trying to resolve the 'rusty sunroof frame' issues on and off for the past 5 years, having them re-manufactured is too costly and even if we could have them made we'd need to reuse the original glass.
Fiat designed the coupé sunroof as a bespoke size so Bravo. Brava etc etc don't fit, I purchased several units second hand to physically try but no joy.
After market has been looked in to, issue we have here is the OE hole size in the roof panel is quite large so we're very limited to what will fit when the frame and rails are removed, after market will also need a none sunroof head lining so something else that needs to be factored in.
At the moment I'd advising owners who have light corrosion in small areas to tackle it now with rust stop and paint, and for the owners with heavier rust issues to leave it closed and pull the relay so it can't be accidentally opened.

It is a big problem and one that will seriously effect sunroof models in the future, even to the point of water ingress damage writing them off so some reverse engineering and some thinking outside the box is needed on this.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Countrycruising] #1620460
14/05/2018 22:24
14/05/2018 22:24
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 343
bristol
mr_nobut Offline
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 343
bristol
Joe, point we’ll made.

I think I actually made my sunroof worse by pulling off the old rubber and fitting a new one thinking it’d help.

The old rubber was actually holding the frame together!!! I’ve now temporarily bonded and filled in the holes in the frame/rubber with flexible black gutter sealant to hold it all together!!

I would advise those with a sunroof to pop it off (only held on by a couple of screws) and treat the frame with rust prevention and some hamarite type paint. Don’t be tempted to replace rubber as it might actually make it worse!!

I’ve hopefully found another that could be a bit better, they are becoming like hens teeth... cry


inky goodness!!
Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620469
15/05/2018 06:52
15/05/2018 06:52
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,114
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,114
FCSS 01684 593187
David I blame Partsworld for selling the new seals and not advising owners to check the condition of their sunroof first.
Many have done exactly the same as yourself, pulled the old seal off and with it the rusty corners so the new seal won't fit back on as there's nothing there for the barbed shape to grip to, a real 'oh crap' moment for all involved.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1620470
15/05/2018 08:01
15/05/2018 08:01
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
H_R Offline
My life on the forum
H_R  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
I tried using gutter sealant but it just made a mess and I don’t think it ever cures so I cleaned it up and tried silicone sealant

I think that the actual issue is the rubber lip does not Water proof on its own so water gets under then has no where to go other than sitting in the seal against the metal work
So the solution is to bond down the seal to the glass, it’s just a case of using the right stuff and doing it neatly

Cannot remember what my original one looked like but I believe there was a slight gap on the join so that explains why it rusted
My other sunroof I painted with epoxy 2 part paint must admit I have not looked at it since but I’m sure it’s no different now from when I repainted it!

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: H_R] #1621770
12/06/2018 14:07
12/06/2018 14:07

T
Taz
Unregistered
Taz
Unregistered
T



Just to add, my poxy frame has the same issue, finally bit the bullet, not as bad as I thought...but 2 of the front edges are missing in bits, but the radii are there, thankfully with some careful heat to the frame, the glass is easily separated, going take the frame into work, shot blast with light glass bead, then go about epoxy primer then repair...shite design, wish they had made the frame stainless !

I wonder if Marcus could make a replica outta fibreglass ?

Bonding is easy, and whatever they used at st Cobain was poorly applied inadequate adhesive.

....knew I should have bought Non sunroof one ! crazy

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1621805
13/06/2018 18:12
13/06/2018 18:12
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 221
norwich
sharman Offline
Making a profit
sharman  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 221
norwich
Just thinking out loud,, could 3d printing be a viable solution to some of the now unavailable parts.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: sharman] #1621825
14/06/2018 13:28
14/06/2018 13:28

T
Taz
Unregistered
Taz
Unregistered
T



Def possible, most of the pressing don't need all them extra curves etc...

smile

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1621835
14/06/2018 19:02
14/06/2018 19:02
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 338
Camberley, Surrey
J
jonnyboy54321 Offline
Making a profit
jonnyboy54321  Offline
Making a profit
J

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 338
Camberley, Surrey
What an irony this thread is.
My yellow resto coupe is non-sunroof (I orefer a glass top but looks like I've dodged a bullet!).
My blue sprinty has a glass roof - but I don't want it in there as need the extra headroom as its already half prepped as a track car.....


Always seem to have too many 20VT's to count......
Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1621838
14/06/2018 19:20
14/06/2018 19:20
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
G
Gunzi Offline
Club member 189, Former Club President
Gunzi  Offline
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Je suis un Coupé
G

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
There is a how to guide for removal of the sunroof, should you be able to refurbish the frame.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1621844
15/06/2018 02:58
15/06/2018 02:58
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 73
Perth, Western Australia
Andrewseamaster Offline
Reaping the fruits
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 73
Perth, Western Australia
Webasto don't make any? They are shite but I do like to have it fully open on sunny days. Also the bonding I am sure is poor. I have had my coupe twice and I remember an annoying creak from the fold down seat area in the past, turns out the rear screen bonding isn't up to snuff and it's moving about!

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Andrewseamaster] #1622360
27/06/2018 14:52
27/06/2018 14:52

T
Taz
Unregistered
Taz
Unregistered
T



Just to add... I've refurbished my sunroof frame.... it'll never be concourse....but it's fixed.

Ended up shot blasting the lot, then remade the 2 missing edges with GRP tape, then resing the lot

Worked well, only pain was refitting the seal.

Took 3 attempts, and certain bits needed realigning with a rubber mallet....

I left the seal out in the sun to soften, then rolled into the groove with a hockey puck. Certain bits I added some non setting butyl sealant.

Just painted the back frame with gloss enamel

The seal sits better than when new...but was a lot of aggro getting two of the bends to lie flat..you have to pull it into the bend... Would have been hard work if the bends had corroded away!

I reckon an easier fix is to replace the seal with one that clips onto the edge of the glass and bond. Then the rusty upturn you just cut off & dress flat.

Removing the frame took 10minz with a blowtorch on the metal to gently heat it to about 80deg c ...

A u seal with a 10mm compressive seal would suffice....

That's what I'll do next time !

Edit : some pics of what you may see !!!


click to enlarge


rusty as hell !

I had to cut off the rust from the back of the glass too & prep.

All finished


click to enlarge


Cheers crazy

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1622387
28/06/2018 14:34
28/06/2018 14:34
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
H_R Offline
My life on the forum
H_R  Offline
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Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
Interesting so you removed the frame from the glass without damage? and just by gently warming?

Was the glass marked as to where to realign when bonding back on or was it measured carefully before removing?

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1622395
28/06/2018 16:17
28/06/2018 16:17

T
Taz
Unregistered
Taz
Unregistered
T



Glass came away easy...

I simply cut the old seal into 4 bits and placed n s e w to centralise, then clamped gently to the steel frame....

Easy really.

Yup, the glue used is rubbish, with a small plastic wedge, the glass came away in about 10 mins... maybe less ! Naturally, aim the flame at the steel, not the glass !!

Cheers.

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1622419
29/06/2018 10:02
29/06/2018 10:02
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 975
Behind Enemy Lines
Master_Mariner Offline
Club member 583
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Behind Enemy Lines
Hats off to you for getting the glass out so easily,

I had a look at mine two weeks ago and did a bit of experimental teasing at fixings and pulling of screws and it wasn't looking a smooth removal process.

I re-stated everything-and aim to re-finish with rust inhibitor where necessary during the summer. Then keep it closed and try and not think about it for a while.

MM

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1662242
04/12/2022 23:32
04/12/2022 23:32
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 20
Derby uk
F
Fly2 Offline
Newbie
Fly2  Offline
Newbie
F

Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 20
Derby uk
Hi everyone how far should sunroof open mine only opens about 4-5inches

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Fly2] #1662245
05/12/2022 01:18
05/12/2022 01:18
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,660
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Offline
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Edinburgh  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,660
Auld Reekie
Originally Posted by Fly2
Hi everyone how far should sunroof open mine only opens about 4-5inches


To the best of my knowledge it's a two-stage process - the first press of the switch opens the roof at an angle, the second slides it back....I wouldn't say much more than 6 inches.


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: Edinburgh] #1662255
05/12/2022 13:43
05/12/2022 13:43
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 20
Derby uk
F
Fly2 Offline
Newbie
Fly2  Offline
Newbie
F

Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 20
Derby uk
Ok thanks for letting me no

Re: Coupe sunroof repair/replacement [Re: ] #1662268
05/12/2022 19:57
05/12/2022 19:57
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,521
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Berlin
It's different for 16v and 20v models IIRC; the 16v goes a little further back when open.


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