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Car cranks but won't start #1640798
26/04/2020 22:28
26/04/2020 22:28

S
Stellan
Unregistered
Stellan
Unregistered
S



Can some one give some advice?
Vehicle is Fiat Tipo 2.0ie sedicivalvio...needed fuel pump and head gasket/fuel filter and other bits to get on the road. Car was running before fuel pump failure.
After removing head discovered warp and worn cam lobe on number 4 exhaust valve. Luckily had a spare engine so change of head with good cams. Check of valves with wire wheel clean and re lap of valve seat..no re grind of valve angles or valve seat, guide replacement but definitely new valve seals. New head bolts correctly torqued with 90 twist twice. Non fiat head gasket...but new gasket with a gasket set
Check of all timing marks on install of head and check of tension, 45degree belt twist between cam wheels and nearly 90 degree belt twist on long straight front edge. All timing marks line up...tic. crank to just a little after 12 o’clock on engine marks, cam pulleys to 12 o’clock as well with cylinder 1 and 4 at tdc. (4 cylinder on compression stroke/cam lobes at o'clock inlet/6 o’clock exhaust) (1 on top of inlet stroke/cam lobes at 2-3 o’clock inlet/ 8-9 o’clock exhaust)
This is where it gets unusual...compression even across the 4 cylinders but has dropped after head gasket job...can get engine to turn over but hard to start and when running won’t keep idle. 2000-2500 rpm but timing seems of and hard to get timing light on to check as real hard to get running.
Just wondering if I should be checking something else to get running more easily...as first off it sounded like fuel issue...as fuel pump failure was original issue. vehicle doesn’t have Schradder on fuel rail but does have bled screw. Could it be the dizzy or any sensor, for crank and/or dizzy...or maybe intake plenum vacuum as intake came off to do head gasket job.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640800
26/04/2020 22:35
26/04/2020 22:35
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,659
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Offline
Club President, member225
Edinburgh  Offline
Club President, member225
Forum veteran

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,659
Auld Reekie
Stellan, your double post in Technical has been rerouted - one of them is here and the other identical one has been deleted.


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640804
27/04/2020 06:49
27/04/2020 06:49
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,994
ation
szkom Offline
Club member 2000
szkom  Offline
Club member 2000
Forum is my job

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,994
ation
I'd try and re time the cams again. The even, low compression is a fairly good indicator that it isn't correct.

Some assumptions:

The new cylinder head and cams you fitted were the same part number as the old. I'm not an expert in that engine, but I can imagine that there will be various guises of that engine, say for different market regions. These often have different compression ratios to account for fuel quality/emissions.

You've correctly lapped the valves in. I was unsure from your post. You say you haven't ground them. But you do mention lapping.

Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640810
27/04/2020 09:30
27/04/2020 09:30
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
Tasmania
G
Grigio Offline
Making a profit
Grigio  Offline
Making a profit
G

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 203
Tasmania
Have a look at the T124group on Facebook, there'll be a few kiwis on there that know their way around a Tipo.


2000 grigio moon 20VT Plus.
Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640862
30/04/2020 08:15
30/04/2020 08:15
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,659
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Offline
Club President, member225
Edinburgh  Offline
Club President, member225
Forum veteran

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,659
Auld Reekie
Stellan if your question is about another vehicle - i.e. "not "a Fiat Coupe - then this is the correct section for it to appear.

Your identical post was removed from Technical Issues a few days ago and its duplicate from the neighbouring thread deleted, as it was again today.

While it's understood you want to find answers to your problem other users will be expecting to find Coupe-relevant matters in the Technical section.

In these days when the forum is fairly quiet there will be no problem with your queries being spotted and hopefully it can provide you with the info you require smile


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640864
30/04/2020 08:56
30/04/2020 08:56

G
GrahamL
Unregistered
GrahamL
Unregistered
G




Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: szkom] #1640872
30/04/2020 11:50
30/04/2020 11:50

S
Stellan
Unregistered
Stellan
Unregistered
S



Thanks for the expedient replies... and for deleting the duplicated query. Yes it is a technical based question for an engine that is the same as the naturally aspirated 16v coupe engine.
Timing has been checked a few times and if it isn't an electrical or sensor issue something still tells me it could be off a tooth or two..The crank mark might be slightly advanced 1-4degrees and I have aligned the cam wheel marks according to the marks on the rocker cover. Basically straight up.

Just to clarify when #1 cylinder is at TDC and the cam wheel marks are at the top of the wheels then #4 cylinder is also at the top of its compression stroke, as that is where the dizzy rotor points to. when the dizzy rotor points to 1 on the dizzy the marks on the cam wheels are at the bottom (180 degrees opposed) but of course #1 cylinder is still at TDC (compression Stroke).
As the spare engine was sourced from one of the 10 sedicivalvio Tipos in NZ (My parts vehicle). It should be fine, the vehicle was a running vehicle, but had frontal damage.
The valves were removed and lapped with two grades of compound, and head paraffin tested for leak-by after new valve seals fitted. All good. I didn't notice any unusual qualities to the valves, but didn't have them or the head professionally checked by an Engine shop..Just straight edged and very carefully cleaned up service of block and head before gasket fitting.

I will try to get some advice from the NZ sites while we are on lockdown.

Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: szkom] #1640917
02/05/2020 00:08
02/05/2020 00:08

S
Stellan
Unregistered
Stellan
Unregistered
S



After new plugs and a timing light I got the engine to run with a high idle 1100rpm...Spark timing mark kept fluctuating 2-5 degrees before the marks on cambelt cover and engine would stall if idle was brought back to 500-900 rpm. On attempts to restart back fires again... Car would rev through range but sounded rough... Out of interest I thought I would disassemble the original distributor on the off chance that it is in better condition than the one from the donor engine/head... NO WAY! the original dizzy magnet was in five pieces and I thought I better research the effects of a broken magnet in the dizzy. All signs lead to this fault...So pull the donor head/dizzy and aha..two pert magnet... Now where to source a new magnet???

Re: Car cranks but won't start [Re: ] #1640921
02/05/2020 20:22
02/05/2020 20:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,520
Berlin
Might be something you can find on the bay... plenty of neodymium magnets in various sizes available.

No idea as to the spec for the original, so I guess it's very much suck it and see,


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