Fiat Coupe Forum
- Founded by Kayjey & James Northam
- Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Posting images


» Related sites
    Main club site
    fiatcoupe.net


» External data
    owners listed
 
Who's Online Now
3 registered members (Rosso, 386ka, 1 invisible), 47 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums68
Topics110,826
Posts1,314,615
Members2,189
Most Online731
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters(All Time)
barnacle 32,430
stan 32,098
Theresa 22,980
bockers 21,025
PeteP 19,726
JimO 17,914
Nigel 17,228
Jim_Clennell 16,378
RSS Feeds
Club Events
Club Information
Track Events
Rolling Road/RWYB
Social Events
Non-UK Events
Coupé Related Chat
Coupé Spotting
Coupé News/Press
Buying/Selling Advice
Insuring a Coupé
Basic FAQ's
How to Guides
Forum Issues
Technical Problems
General Maintenance
Styling
Tuning
Handling
ICE and Alarm
Coupés for Sale
Coupés Wanted
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Group Buys
Business Forum
Other Vehicles for Sale/Wanted
Other Items for Sale/Wanted
Haggling/Offers
Ebay links
Other Cars
Other Websites
General Chat
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged #1640965
06/05/2020 20:00
06/05/2020 20:00
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
J
Jimg Offline OP
Newbie
Jimg  Offline OP
Newbie
J

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
The story of my coupe.
I already striped the interior, installed a custom magnaflow exhaust, fitted bigger brakes and better coilovers to my coupe but it is still very slow,
so I’m going to put an amr500 supercharger on it and after that I’m planning on putting a turbo from a 1.9jtd engine on it. The drive ratio will be 1to 2.5 and I’m keeping my engine limited to 6500 rpm, because that’s where the power should be max.

My idea for the twin charged setup is feeding power from the turbo into the supercharger to make it more compressed, or to use the supercharger to feed the turbo and have a bypass valve in between that will open at vacuum or boost pressure.
does anybody have any experience with this because I’m not sure if I should run it from turbo to supercharger or viceversa?

Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640972
07/05/2020 08:52
07/05/2020 08:52
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,145
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,145
Sandhurst
I'm no expert at this, but if you have a look at Norris Design's kit, they do a twin charged kit for the Mitsubishi Evo's with great success. From what I have seen of this, it is a turbo feeding the supercharger with a bypass valve that will stop the air from the supercharger and the engine to be powered by the turbo charger


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640973
07/05/2020 08:56
07/05/2020 08:56
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 78
norwich
A
acc67 Offline
Reaping the fruits
acc67  Offline
Reaping the fruits
A

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 78
norwich
I have no real experience, but from memory a supercharger boosts at lower engine speed where as a turbo charger boosts a higher engine speeds.
Think it was the Lancia 037 the ran a dual boost system

Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640976
07/05/2020 10:08
07/05/2020 10:08
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic
Honza Offline
On a journey
Honza  Offline
On a journey

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic
first of all.. few question

with what ecu u plan to control the system? (if stock, verify, that there are companies, who can tune Hitachi ecu.. u will find not many, if one., the u are in trouble and will have to fit some piggiback ecu..which is not ideal....)

what your HP goal? it coul be too overkill to twin charge 1.8 if you can simply bolt supercharger on and leave the rest, or turbocharger (novitec did kits for 1.8 and alfa TS , hwich is the same engine in the past, driven by piggyback ecu, but were not ideal..after removing it and proper mapping car get much better results....)

with turbo from JTD..u will be limited to around 200bhp... chceck the compressor and turbine map.. I think that its noit good and suitable.. even if u use from 1.8 TBI u will get aroun 200-260bhp if tuned properly, and what I know from my 159, it spools up at 1500rpm and dies around 5500..which is like diesel... and for this case, twincharge is nonesence...



what supporting mods to engine? (stock internal/forged ones, cams etc..)

gearbox..


how to twincharge.. look at lancia S4


05 15.84s
06 14,79s
07 14,9s
09 14.4s
11 lot of things to do
.
.
17 back on the road smile and much stronger
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Honza] #1640977
07/05/2020 11:49
07/05/2020 11:49
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,674
ation
szkom Offline
Forum is my job
szkom  Offline
Forum is my job

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,674
ation
I didn't think the Alfa 1.8 and the Coupe 1.8 share the same lineage? I understood that the Coupe 1.8 was a derivative of the 5 cylinder 20v motor

Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640978
07/05/2020 12:12
07/05/2020 12:12
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic
Honza Offline
On a journey
Honza  Offline
On a journey

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic

no,

alfa 1.8 16v TS and fiat 1.8 16v are same "architecture" engines..."patrola serra " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Pratola_Serra_modular_engines



1.8 in coupe:

82*82,7 bore*stroke, camshafts 9mm lift intake, 8,5mm exhaust, 1 spark per cyl, 6toot trigger wheel (hitachi/subaru pattern)


alfa 1.8 Twinspark (16v)

82*82,7 bore*stroke, camshafts 9,5mm lift intake, 9,5mm exhaust (the only real performance affecting difference in comparison to fiat), 2 sparks per cyl 60-2toot trigger wheel (bosh)

the 5cyl 2.0 is more like 1.6 Twin spark - exactly same bore/stroke, small ports in heads and same dimension valves... 2.4 20V one ist thanks to lower stroke "destroked" (same stroke as diesels) any by 1 cylinder extended 2l twinspark


so u can upgrade your fiat 1.8 with cams from any 1.8l and higher twinspark engine (best 2.0 JTS from GT/156), or rebore block to 83mm, put in 2l or diesel crank (with small mains) and u get 2l in 1.8 block without balance shafts.. which I did in the past to my stilo 1.8 (and I was also thinking about turbocharging by modyfiing some parts from 20VT/Stilo JTD etc..)

what makes various conversions litle bit toughter is one rod lenght and different compression height piston.. its not so easy like with old lampredi, where u had 1 compression height for all capacity variants and could easilly play with CR by simple swap eg. 1.6 pistons with 2l...



same family is 1.8 TBI engine, which its bottom end is interchangable with JTD/Multijet.. so u can get 2l TBI etc..

Last edited by Honza; 07/05/2020 12:15.

05 15.84s
06 14,79s
07 14,9s
09 14.4s
11 lot of things to do
.
.
17 back on the road smile and much stronger
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: acc67] #1640980
07/05/2020 15:02
07/05/2020 15:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
Enjoying the ride
robcoupe20vt  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
State of Essex .
Originally Posted by acc67
I have no real experience, but from memory a supercharger boosts at lower engine speed where as a turbo charger boosts a higher engine speeds.
Think it was the Lancia 037 the ran a dual boost system

It was the Lancia Delta S4 that ran this set up . VW used the same set up on their 1.4petrol CAVE/CTHE with some sucess but discontinued this engine


Fiat 20VT
Fiat 16vt
Fiat 130TC
Fiat 131 sport
Kawasaki ZX6R G2
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640981
07/05/2020 15:06
07/05/2020 15:06
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 855
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 855
Germany
I would just buy a 20VT - at least you know it works or live with the available performance, like me frown

It is a 20+ year old car. Driving it like you stole it will only end in tears, one way or another.


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640986
07/05/2020 20:13
07/05/2020 20:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
andyps  Offline
Club member 1482
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
I will never get round to it but have thought that adding a supercharger would be amazing for torque fill before the turbo really kicks in!


Andy

[Linked Image]
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1640989
08/05/2020 06:22
08/05/2020 06:22
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903
Poland
deannn_20VT Offline
My life on the forum
deannn_20VT  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903
Poland
With modern, fast spooling turbocharges, I personally see little point in twincharging. Also, remember that a supercharger is belt-driver so will eat torque and you have to be sure it is worth it. Again, personally I would fit a modern turbo - much simplier and easier to tune.


Self-tuned and forged 20VT, GTX2867R gen.II, Ecumaster EMU lack Stand Alone, Bosch 625cc, TRE FMIC.
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1641005
08/05/2020 13:18
08/05/2020 13:18
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
J
Jimg Offline OP
Newbie
Jimg  Offline OP
Newbie
J

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
Already thank you all for the quick reply’s I will look into all the tips you gave me this is very helpful.

The hp I’m looking for is around the 180/200hp because the stock 1.8 only has 130hp.

Next to me is a tuning shop that told me they could help me with a custom ecu tune for when I have everything fitted

Upgraded pistons and internals are things I’m looking at for if this works because if it doesn’t it would just be a waste.
I am looking into tuning the head for better flow of air and indeed maybe a different cam but I will have to do some research for that.

The original plan for my coupe was 20vt swap it so if I somehow f*ck up in the progress of doing this and blow up the motor. I can replace it for the stronger 5cilinder version

Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1641012
08/05/2020 19:39
08/05/2020 19:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
State of Essex .
robcoupe20vt Offline
Enjoying the ride
robcoupe20vt  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 722
State of Essex .
Interesting manufactures are now calling it E-boosting instead of twin charging . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEGisoOnewg
Cleetus supercharged his cobalt i his car and look at the power result https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEGisoOnewg

Last edited by robcoupe20vt; 08/05/2020 19:53. Reason: mistake

Fiat 20VT
Fiat 16vt
Fiat 130TC
Fiat 131 sport
Kawasaki ZX6R G2
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1641021
09/05/2020 14:04
09/05/2020 14:04
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,228
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
Club Member 123
Nigel  Offline
Club Member 123
Forum veteran

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,228
Staffordshire
Originally Posted by Jimg
The story of my coupe.
and after that I’m planning on putting a turbo from a 1.9jtd engine on it.


That turbo will not be suitable - it is a variable-vane geometry turbo, set up for a low-revving diesel engine - it doesn't have a wastegate - it will not cope with the exhaust gas temperatures of a petrol engine

Good luck, although I expect you will spend massively more on getting a 1.8 to 200bhp than the net spend you would incur if you sold the 1.8 and bought a 20VT


[Linked Image]
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1641036
10/05/2020 06:30
10/05/2020 06:30
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic
Honza Offline
On a journey
Honza  Offline
On a journey

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Czech republic
if u look just for only 180-200bhp

Its feasible even in ATMO way.... and maybe cheaper...

- when I look for the prices of supercharger kit from autodelta for Twin spark (which is same family engine).. it cost 4000pounds and u get around 170-200bhp (1.6 - 2.0 TS)
- similar cost turbo kit from Novitec in the past, aproximatelly 200bhp etc..

in atmo way:

- second hand TS cams, if u are able to get JTS, go for JTS (even higher lift) u can get them even for 30eur
- exhaust - you already did something, but the biggest bottleneck are headers.. tiny 34-5mm Primary pies are good for something like 1.3liter engine..no matter whats done after headers, if they are the bottleneck, the results will newer be good..... best u can (could) purchase is this.: https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/156-ts-manifold-by-wizrdovoz.174516/ forget supersprint one.. its only "slightly larger" copy of stock..)
-some headwork and raising compression to 11:1


regarding to mapping:

here is one example of 1.8 modified with TS cams, exhaust and remap with results around 145bhp.. the owner in discussion says, that even "famous" tuning companies refused to map this, as they don´t have suitable equipment for 1.8 Hitachi ecu...

https://www.facebook.com/Empeco/videos/pcb.3014466081901456/10156373914385899/?type=3&theater

(I was in same situation when did my stilo 2ltr conversion.. Asked many companies, and if I get some answer, it was usually "we can´t do that" ..which simply means we are only uploading unknown maps, or blindly modify some maps and if they se some increase on thyno, the result is good.... Im affraid that same is with the tuning shop close to you...)


05 15.84s
06 14,79s
07 14,9s
09 14.4s
11 lot of things to do
.
.
17 back on the road smile and much stronger
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1641057
11/05/2020 15:51
11/05/2020 15:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,145
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,145
Sandhurst
As I mentioned at the top of the thread, Norris Design have been doing this for 10 years now:

http://www.norrisdesigns.com/proddetail.asp?prod=evo%2D032506

And to quote from their site:

Quote
This setup gives you ZERO LAG! One vehicle tested with a GTX4202R on pump gas made over 300LbFt at 2000rpm and over 800hp at 8250Rpm!


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Fiat coupe 1.8 16v twincharged [Re: Jimg] #1642484
Yesterday at 13:23
Yesterday at 13:23
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
J
Jimg Offline OP
Newbie
Jimg  Offline OP
Newbie
J

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4
Holland
Next update! fitted the manifold and the turbo on the car after Some changes to the manifold, and i now have a wastgate on the manifold. oil lines have been fitted from the oil filter. And the return line has been drilled into the block. Soon i Will have a first startup without all the piping to see if it works and then i am going to make a custom downpipe and fit the air pipes


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.3.19 Page Time: 0.031s Queries: 14 (0.017s) Memory: 0.8217 MB (Peak: 0.9551 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2020-07-11 15:22:38 UTC