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Nice car advice for 21-yr-old #1640711
22/04/2020 10:22
22/04/2020 10:22
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Posts: 16,366
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Time moves on and my elder stepson has moved from flicking fag-ends on to our roof to being a fully qualified heating engineer with a brand new job working for a company doing high-end renewable energy projects. He won't be earning riches, but enough to afford something tastier than his work van on a lease/PCP.
Credit-worthiness aside (elephant in the room, possibly), assuming he is allowed c£300/month, he thinks he can get (and insure) a 2017 240i BMW. This is based on figures he's seen on Autotrader, but I am worried he's going to find the reality a bit of a smack in the mouth.
Does anyone know if he's being set up by over-optimistic marketing, or do his back-of-a-rizla-packet sums add up?

Edited to add: he's 21 with 2 years NCB

Last edited by Jim_Clennell; 22/04/2020 10:23.


Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640713
22/04/2020 12:42
22/04/2020 12:42
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 121
Troon, South Ayrshire
Alan_K Offline
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I would be very doubtful about his figures as the insurance for anyone under 25 would make those figures unrealistic

Given it would be about £300 a month just to lease/buy the car per month

At 21 he shouldn’t be looking at any cars with a badge such as bmw Mercedes and such

Something like Volkswagen should be the limit to his plans

Leasing is literally throwing your money down the drain
At no point do you have anything to show for the money your spending

The dream plan should buy anything with cash
Besides your house

Granted majority don’t do it including myself when I was young
But at no point did I think spending £300 a month
On a car when I was in my 20’s was a good idea
And now being 36 I still wouldn’t think it was a good idea

And yes that’s how you build up your credit rating by basically spending money you don’t have and paying it back consistently

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Alan_K] #1640714
22/04/2020 15:43
22/04/2020 15:43
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Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Alan_K


At 21 he shouldn’t be looking at any cars with a badge such as bmw Mercedes and such

Something like Volkswagen should be the limit to his plans



Thanks, Alan.
I have the strong feeling that you don't have a young adult male petrolhead in your household (possibly yourself excluded)!
The likely outcome of all this is simply that the object of his dreams will become an older, more thrashed, less tasteful performance BMW.
Most of his mates drive very nasty 10-15 year-old A3's, until they get a better job.
Believe me, if I thought it wasn't an utter waste of breath, I'd be pointing out the massive benefits of NOT living with your parents. Unfortunately, the chief advantage to him of remaining with us is the only one that counts: it allows him to spend more money on an unnecessarily expensive, unsuitable (and very nice) car.



Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640720
22/04/2020 17:16
22/04/2020 17:16
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ation
szkom Offline
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I think he's gonna struggle. I worked with a younger guy who was a couple of years outta uni. He had grand plans of a big engined 3 series to celebrate the new job. Not sure what the payments were, but they were prohibitive.

Perhaps a small personal loan rather than pcp/hp once a car has been found?

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640725
22/04/2020 21:10
22/04/2020 21:10
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clanger Offline
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Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell
Originally Posted by Alan_K


At 21 he shouldn’t be looking at any cars with a badge such as bmw Mercedes and such

Something like Volkswagen should be the limit to his plans



Thanks, Alan.
I have the strong feeling that you don't have a young adult male petrolhead in your household (possibly yourself excluded)!
The likely outcome of all this is simply that the object of his dreams will become an older, more thrashed, less tasteful performance BMW.
Most of his mates drive very nasty 10-15 year-old A3's, until they get a better job.
Believe me, if I thought it wasn't an utter waste of breath, I'd be pointing out the massive benefits of NOT living with your parents. Unfortunately, the chief advantage to him of remaining with us is the only one that counts: it allows him to spend more money on an unnecessarily expensive, unsuitable (and very nice) car.


rofl rofl rofl

Yeah, I'm with him (and you on that summary)

I was there 30+ years ago, company motor meant I could go Westfield Seven, Caterham Seven, Lotus Elan, Fletcher Speed boat, Jetski, (all at once) and blatted friday night to sunday morning. You're only young once, WTF!!

I've got one at the same age and he just wants to study engineering, not even interested in tuning the lawn mower, what can you do... wink

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640730
23/04/2020 09:36
23/04/2020 09:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
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Perhaps up his monthly rent so his outlandish and impractical plans to get into debt and have nothing to show for it after 3 odd years are scuppered.

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640884
30/04/2020 20:01
30/04/2020 20:01
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,498
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
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Jim if he’s anything like my son —- an Audi is the car of choice for any youngster now !!!

My son used to foam at the mouth for a bmw—- not any more —- on his 3rd Audi and they are just getting faster and faster !!

Not being cheeky ( well maybe I am ) I have to disagree with Alan ( sorry )leasing is the way to go for young people they want to change their car every two year’s at the most and unless you buy something relatively old which has lost its main money ( but will cost an arm and a leg in repairs ) If you pick correctly there are loads of bargains s out their

His first Audi When he was 26 was a basic New Mk3 TT in 2016 12,000 mls per year monthly cost ? £199 (£28,500 car)

Second Audi S5 Sport Fully loaded Also 12,000 mls £249 (£37,000 car)

New car Audi Rs4 bloody fast ——- (£55,000. Car) £399 per month

Only thing extra is tyres and insurance they pay the rest !

You can’t get cheaper prestige motoring when buying —- think of the loss In value of any of those cars over two years way more than the leasing costs

As an aside when he got his TT I got my wife one as well ,we have kept the lease going for four years now ,she’s only done 41,000 mls in it ,the lease costs dropped in years 3 & 4 To £179 and then £169

They have now asked do we want to buy it ? As they don’t lease cars any older than 4 years

We have paid them just less than £9k in lease fees over the 4 years — and the cost to buy is £10,400 so a £28,500 car has ended up costing us less than £20,000 how does that figure !!!
Dunno but we’ll happily take it

Anyway sorry high jacked your thread

Basically check out all lease deals as bargains to be had laugh


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640895
01/05/2020 09:23
01/05/2020 09:23
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
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does that figure contain the depreciation four years later?

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640904
01/05/2020 12:08
01/05/2020 12:08
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 121
Troon, South Ayrshire
Alan_K Offline
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You usually pay some sort of down payment when you lease a girl
Like a couple of grand

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Alan_K] #1640905
01/05/2020 12:33
01/05/2020 12:33
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clanger Offline
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Gone.

Last edited by clanger; 01/05/2020 18:31.
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Submariner] #1640912
01/05/2020 17:50
01/05/2020 17:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,498
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
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Originally Posted by Submariner
does that figure contain the depreciation four years later?


The figures just show if I had opted to buy the car from new I would have had to pay over £28000 but leasing for 4 years and buying it now I have paid less than £20,000........car would appreciate any way its bought ...plus if id taken a loan out I probably would have also had to pay a couple of grand in interest to

oh and yes it was £1200 down with first payment but they paid servicing and road tax ,so i'd guess that balances that out


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640915
01/05/2020 22:08
01/05/2020 22:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
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I'm confused so your lease car had an option to buy? Isn't that a Lease Purchase deal so not a Lease Deal which has no option to purchase at the end of the term?

As far as I can tell the Lease Purchase deals and Private Contract Deals do not contribute to the actual cost of the vehicle but cover the depreciation over the duration of the lease. This means someone will be repaying the difference between the value of the car at the start and what it will be worth at the end.

Plus point as you say is that there are lower monthly payments on a car that could well be outside someone's financial budget. The balloon payment is compulsory at the end of a Lease Purchase so the leasee has to buy it cash or secure a bank/car finance loan; on a car lease you hand it back and walk away (PCP you can chose either etc). Looks like as you did the car can be purchased at a lower rate to save the company the hassle of taking it back and then outing it again via auctions etc. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how the situation is viewed roughly 20% of people on LPs and PCPs make the balloon payment and assume ownership.

Last edited by Submariner; 01/05/2020 22:31.
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640920
02/05/2020 21:04
02/05/2020 21:04
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,498
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
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Hi Submariner,

It was originally a two year lease deal from select car leasing ...no option to buy, after nearly two years the car was due to go back ,my wife didn't know what she wanted , we had gone on holiday and I forgot all about it !! when we returned I got an e mail from the leasing co too arrange inspection and pick up, I thought sh*t I haven't organised r another car......so in a panic I called Audi direct rather than the leasing co.....asked if could keep it for another year they said yes no problem the police is now £169 pm . I thought good deal thats fine ....did the same the following year ,deal price now £179 thought weird but said ok..............they came back two weeks ago ,saying lease is due up end may beginning June .......I called they said we cant re lease you the car , as we don't lease cars after they are 4 years old .......then they e mailed me saying do I want to buy it , I asked for a price they said £10900 ( sorry not £10400 as per 1st message , don't know where that figure came from) .

So I don't know if they decided to sell me that car because it was now 4 years old ....and that was indeed easier than picking it up auctioning etc etc ...or just an outside thought maybe covid19 came into this ,and they either didn't want the car back just now, because of handling .maybe there has there been a sudden influx of cars from people handing them back, but it seems calling them direct after the 2nd year, seems to have taken it out of the hands of the leasing company (it would seem to my advantage)

I don't know ,but if you look at similar cars, age, colour , spec etc they seem to be priced around the £15-£16K mark !! thats why we decided to take the deal.


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640924
03/05/2020 06:46
03/05/2020 06:46
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Posts: 1,345
Kent
Submariner Offline
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You did well on that then! tongue

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Submariner] #1640926
03/05/2020 12:10
03/05/2020 12:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,498
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
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Originally Posted by Submariner
You did well on that then! tongue


he!! well I think so ...wife fairly happy too, she's never liked changing her car ....so i'l give it a full valet and polish ,get the wheels re done ,and a new front grill ,I'll also put her cherished no on it ,as I hadn't bothered before , because, it was always.............. a short termer crazy


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640927
03/05/2020 12:12
03/05/2020 12:12
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Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
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oh and sorry Jim ,I'll give you your thread back rolleyes


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1640954
06/05/2020 08:20
06/05/2020 08:20
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Warrington
G_Man Offline
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Echoing some of the comments above I'd steer well clear of plans and aim to buy with cash if possible or take a loan - there are very good deals out there if he thinks he can make payments on a plan. Don't lots of these plans have mileage restrictions? No criticism of your son Jim as I see it in the office car park - youngsters wanting immediate prestige and pose value. The problem is at some point , with other financial pressures when you get older, a plan may have to get the chop then you'll likely trade down to something more mundane unless you're on decent money. Seen it happen.

Why be one of the herd and steer him to something a bit more individual which is his to own? I know - a coupe idea laugh But seriously G60 Corrado - loads of respect from petrolheads and clean ones (according to photos) c £7k. Cheaper if you go for 1.8 16v. Haven't a clue about insurance etc.

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641018
09/05/2020 12:12
09/05/2020 12:12
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Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Thanks everyone for the input. Paul, no worries about your "hijack" - very interesting, maybe for MrsC and I...

My stepson (entirely in character) has now stopped constantly banging on about getting a car. I'm hoping he forgets about it for a while, because I just don't think he is a) earning enough, even with his new job or b) sensible enough to make sure he always keeps enough money in his account for the payments. Another of his periodic obsessions is joining the army; something that I really think would suit him, though whether it would simply store up problems for when he leaves in a decade or so, I don't know.
Incidentally, many of his mates have got Audi's and although he used to crave an A3, then a Merc A-Class, he is currently very much a BMW fan.
Kids, eh? Mind you, I confess I've been eyeing up used 550/545s...



Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Alan_K] #1641019
09/05/2020 12:15
09/05/2020 12:15
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Posts: 16,366
Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Alan_K
You usually pay some sort of down payment when you lease a girl
Like a couple of grand

Blimey, things have changed since I married MrsC.



Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641083
13/05/2020 13:54
13/05/2020 13:54
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G_Man Offline
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Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell


Another of his periodic obsessions is joining the army; something that I really think would suit him, though whether it would simply store up problems for when he leaves in a decade or so, I don't know.


If you don't mind me asking why you reckon he'd be suited and problems later on? I thought of joining the forces back in the 80s but had 3 x years in the TA as a taster. Thoroughly enjoyed it but after some exercises with the regs I new it wasn't for me - the camcream played havoc with my complexion laugh. The world has now moved on since then with TA specialists getting deployed regularly in anger but if there are options of TA units in the area it could be worth a punt?

Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: G_Man] #1641088
13/05/2020 17:56
13/05/2020 17:56
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,366
Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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From personal and anecdotal experience, some young lads that join the regular army are a great fit for the life: physically demanding, stimulating activities (as well as boredom!), decent wage (comparatively), plus free board and lodging.
However, it's not news that a high number of the UK's homeless have a background in the forces; it can be extremely difficult to fit back into civilian life after the above-mentioned regime. If you spend 10 years being told what to do and having many day to day decisions made for you, especially if starting before you've had to run your own life independently, it's not surprising that the reality of doing everything for yourself can prove a big ask.
Stepson is in fact already following your advice - he's applied to our local TA (or whatever it's called now), following in the footsteps of his own dad. Hopefully this will give him the same opportunity to decide whether it's the Army Life for him.



Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641096
14/05/2020 08:36
14/05/2020 08:36
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,189
Leicester UK
Ballypete Offline
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I joined the armed forces in 1981 at 17, and when I left 12 years later I did find settling into a new way of life quite daunting but I took full advantage of the resettlement support on offer and had a plan about what I wanted to do next. Having said that in the 18 months after leaving I also lost my job, house and first marriage!


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Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641193
19/05/2020 10:21
19/05/2020 10:21
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Harpenden
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A friends son has just bought a 1.4 VW Scricocco for 6k. A nice looking car with the right(ish) image.

If he wants a finance deal then he should make sure he has enough cash in the bank to cover the entire agreement before buying anything. Just my opinion.


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Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641309
23/05/2020 21:21
23/05/2020 21:21
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Corridor of Uncertainty
Jim_Clennell Offline OP
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Ballypete, I'm glad you were able to take advantage of the resettlement plan, but I'm sorry that it seems to have come with such a hefty price tag. It seems to confirm that joining the forces can sometimes put off difficult issues rather than solving them.

Sugerbear, your views on how to approach a finance agreement are wholly sensible but entirely alien to most 21-year-old lads i know.

Although he still seems to be dreaming of his leased car perfection, I think he's realising it may not be possible yet...



Re: Nice car advice for 21-yr-old [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1641314
24/05/2020 08:58
24/05/2020 08:58
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Leicester UK
Ballypete Offline
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Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell
Ballypete, I'm glad you were able to take advantage of the resettlement plan, but I'm sorry that it seems to have come with such a hefty price tag. It seems to confirm that joining the forces can sometimes put off difficult issues rather than solving them.
...


Yes you’re right Jim- I should have left her years earlier and definitely before buying the house! wink


Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider
Bog standard needn't be boring...

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