Fiat Coupe Forum
- Founded by Kayjey & James Northam
- Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Posting images


» Related sites
    Main club site
    fiatcoupe.net


» External data
    owners listed
 
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Francois), 58 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums68
Topics110,826
Posts1,314,615
Members2,189
Most Online731
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters(All Time)
barnacle 32,430
stan 32,098
Theresa 22,980
bockers 21,025
PeteP 19,726
JimO 17,914
Nigel 17,228
Jim_Clennell 16,378
RSS Feeds
Club Events
Club Information
Track Events
Rolling Road/RWYB
Social Events
Non-UK Events
Coupé Related Chat
Coupé Spotting
Coupé News/Press
Buying/Selling Advice
Insuring a Coupé
Basic FAQ's
How to Guides
Forum Issues
Technical Problems
General Maintenance
Styling
Tuning
Handling
ICE and Alarm
Coupés for Sale
Coupés Wanted
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Group Buys
Business Forum
Other Vehicles for Sale/Wanted
Other Items for Sale/Wanted
Haggling/Offers
Ebay links
Other Cars
Other Websites
General Chat
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade #1492227
05/06/2014 09:58
05/06/2014 09:58
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hi friends

I want to have a little more reactive car beacuse the car, after a turbo upgrade (GT2560R), suffers of a little annoying lag (boost at 2800 rpm).

I found a very cheap 6 speed Alfa 166 2.5 v6 gearbox with 100.000 km at 150 €.

Can this gearbox with perfeclty on my car?

my actual gearbox have this ratios:

Fiat Coupe 20vt 5 speed:
1st Gear ratio 3.8:1
2nd Gear ratio 2.235:1
3rd Gear ratio 1.52:1
4th Gear ratio 1.156:1
5th Gear ratio 0.914:1
Final drive (diff) 3.111:1

so final reducion in 5th is 2,843

and the Alfa:

Alfa 156 V6 2.5 6 speed:
1st Gear ratio 3.5:1
2nd Gear ratio 2.235:1
3rd Gear ratio 1.52:1
4th Gear ratio 1.1613:1
5th Gear ratio 0.971:1
6th Gear ratio 0.816:1
Final drive (diff) 3.9375:1

so final reduction in 6th is 3,213

I want to have the final reduction of my actual 5th gear on the new 6th gear but I have to find a final drive around 3.5:1.

is this possible at a reasonable price?

PS = I know that final drive around 3,5:1 is in the Lancia K 20v Turbo and in the Alfa GTV 3.0 v6

many thanks for your support

ciao

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492263
05/06/2014 12:52
05/06/2014 12:52
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,266
N
nyssa7 Offline
My job on the forum
nyssa7  Offline
My job on the forum
N

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,266
Really not sure that the Alfa gearbox will bolt up directly to the 20vt gearbox.

Someone else might know if you can replace the gear set into the 5 speed Fiat box - certainly if you have the 6 speed Fiat Coupe gearbox, you can swap over the internals from the Alfa 156 V6 box because that's what I have in my kappa

Would have thought if the 6 speed Fiat casing was same as 5 speed, we would have noticed and I would not have to buy a new one when I broke the casing

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492293
05/06/2014 15:05
05/06/2014 15:05
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,631
Northern Ireland
D
daithi28 Offline
My life on the forum
daithi28  Offline
My life on the forum
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,631
Northern Ireland
Alfa 156 2.5V6 6 speed innards into a 20VT 5 Speed will work. LiamM has just done this. See Below....

Originally Posted By: LiamM
So, the car is in the workshop again, 15" wheels almost fitted, just waiting on 30mm spacers for the front wheels to help the rims clear the standard calipers. Also the newly built gearbox is almost ready to drop in. We have dropped the innards of a 2.5V6 Alfa 6 speed gearbox into the coupe 5 speed box casing, works a treat! gearing should be something like below:

click to enlarge

This should make a massive difference, as I struggle to get out of third gear in Mondello park!


His 20VT Race Car Discussion thread is here!

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492311
05/06/2014 16:38
05/06/2014 16:38
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
this is just what I wanted to hear !!! thumb thumb thumb

grazie !!!

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492319
05/06/2014 17:16
05/06/2014 17:16
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Gimmo Offline
Enjoying the ride
Gimmo  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
hangar, vuol dire che possiamo mettere il 6 marce Alfa sotto i nostri turboni!?


Supporting member of FCCUK
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492325
05/06/2014 17:23
05/06/2014 17:23
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
Gimmo, I answer in english we are in UK here !!!

I'm almost sure yes!

I will sacrifice the top speed (not needed at all...) for a better handling

Now I have to ask to my favorite garage....

http://www.mariottiracing.it/mariotti/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

stay tuned...

Gimmo, please, non rubarmi il mio cambio !!!

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492327
05/06/2014 17:52
05/06/2014 17:52
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Gimmo Offline
Enjoying the ride
Gimmo  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
No problem laugh I don't want to steal your gearbox!
I want to buy an Alfa 155 Q4 laugh
Maybe I will take it next week, and I will remain with no money tongue

So, keep in touch and please, update this topic, I'm so curious!


Supporting member of FCCUK
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492446
06/06/2014 12:18
06/06/2014 12:18
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,576
Melbourne, Australia
Scuderia Offline
My life on the forum
Scuderia  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,576
Melbourne, Australia
It will only work in the 156 type 5 speed not the early 5 speed.

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492490
06/06/2014 16:03
06/06/2014 16:03
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hi Scuderia

what means?

I dont want to change only internals...

I want to install the whole gearbox Alfa with diff in place of mine 5 speed gearbox

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1492594
07/06/2014 04:04
07/06/2014 04:04
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,576
Melbourne, Australia
Scuderia Offline
My life on the forum
Scuderia  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,576
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: hangar1138
hi Scuderia

what means?

I dont want to change only internals...

I want to install the whole gearbox Alfa with diff in place of mine 5 speed gearbox


That wont work as the bell housing is different. Only option is to use a Coupe (20VT 156 style 1998+) bellhousng and assemble the alfa 2.5 gearset into it.

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1496794
03/07/2014 12:30
03/07/2014 12:30
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 35
New Zealand
alinesnz Offline
Discoverer
alinesnz  Offline
Discoverer

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 35
New Zealand
Hi there

I had a 5sp 20vt (the late box type) and put a 156 V6 Gearbox in with a coupe bell housing.

Works perfectly....


20VT Plus - Ink Black
integrale Evo 2 - Giallo
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1497623
08/07/2014 17:27
08/07/2014 17:27
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
good for you!

but this transplant is a little too expensive for me now!

my garage asked me around 450 € and to this you have to find a good alfa gearbox...

moral of the story: better find a 6 speed gearbox from Coupe and change the final drive to 1:3,5

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1501287
03/08/2014 16:20
03/08/2014 16:20
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 104
Ireland
L
LiamM Offline
On a journey
LiamM  Offline
On a journey
L

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 104
Ireland
It's an easy enough swap, should only take a few hours, it will totally transform the car, I need a decent LSD for mine now more than ever!

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: LiamM] #1504471
24/08/2014 17:34
24/08/2014 17:34

N
Nixa
Unregistered
Nixa
Unregistered
N



or get an alfa 147 diesel 6speed gearbox even better q2 gearbx

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1512234
19/10/2014 18:07
19/10/2014 18:07
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
Nismo has a 6 speed gearbox for sale, I've contacted him!

I hope to have a positive conclusion ...

after this I have to find final drive 16 / 57 teeth (3,563) from alfa 156 2.0 twin spark engine or gtv 3.0 v6 24v

I hope to not sell a kidney to buy these two gears....

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1522892
23/01/2015 20:56
23/01/2015 20:56
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
finally has arrived !!!

I bought a 2001 6 speed gearbox and I'm almost ready to make the swap; I have also the selector with reverse gear inhibitor.

As above I need to change final drive, two solutions for 16/57 teeth for a 6 gear

- Alfa 166 2.4 jtd 6 speed
- Alfa GTV 3.0 v6 24v 6 speed

this is the dropbox link of my calc file (sorry for the italian)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uho262g917d37wb/rapporti%20cambio.ods?dl=0

if there are some mistake please advise laugh

ciao !

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530256
17/03/2015 20:14
17/03/2015 20:14
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
my project is in advanced stage !

- I bought a 2nd hand gearbox Alfa 2.4 jtd 6 speed
- I sent both gearboxes to my favorite garage for the transplant

interesting that 1st, 2nd, and R internals are the same of the Coupe

other interesting note: the 2 gearbox bellhouse are identical also in the flange area

this has been confirmed by guys in the garage, so why to be crazy to find a 6 speed gearbox from Coupe when you can buy a cheaper 6 speed gearbox from Alfa models?

I will keep you updated this important upgrade of my car

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530261
17/03/2015 20:33
17/03/2015 20:33
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Gimmo Offline
Enjoying the ride
Gimmo  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Really?
A 166 gearbox Will be direct-fit under the Coop?


Supporting member of FCCUK
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530262
17/03/2015 20:53
17/03/2015 20:53
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline
Enjoying the ride
Ferrarist  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: hangar1138

other interesting note: the 2 gearbox bellhouse are identical also in the flange area

Well, is that 100% correct????
Never compared it side to side but heard a lot that they different....


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530396
18/03/2015 18:47
18/03/2015 18:47
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
when the two gearboxes will come back I will post some pics to reveal the mistery.... biglaugh


true or false ? make your bet chinny

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530413
18/03/2015 21:43
18/03/2015 21:43
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
Joro20VT Offline
Discoverer
Joro20VT  Offline
Discoverer

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
It's true.... the only difference is in the right gearbox mount support. But I can tell you a secret... If you use a support mount from 1.9 jtd alfa 147 and fiat original pad everything will come on place. I am with 5 speed gearbox from diesel at the moment with the mentioned upgrade. The only problem is that the 3-4-5th gears are way to long for a petrol engine and the car feels really slow...
1st and 2nd are the same...3th on 8000 rpm is 210 kph 4th 294 kph and 5th theoretical is 390 kph smile


390Hp 426nm
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1530417
18/03/2015 22:08
18/03/2015 22:08
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Gimmo Offline
Enjoying the ride
Gimmo  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 479
North Italy
Joro20VT

--
I am with 5 speed gearbox from diesel
--

so, a quick shifter made for an Alfa will go under a Coupe?


Supporting member of FCCUK
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: Gimmo] #1530453
19/03/2015 09:52
19/03/2015 09:52
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
Joro20VT Offline
Discoverer
Joro20VT  Offline
Discoverer

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
Plovdiv, Bulgaria
Yes, but only 5cyl. smile


390Hp 426nm
Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1539006
24/05/2015 10:56
24/05/2015 10:56
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
PROJECT FINISHED !!

now I have completed 5 to 6 gears swap changing final ratio from 17/54 teeth (stock for our 6 speed cars) to 16/57 teeth

the car is (in my opinion) much more reactive (especially going out form the roundabout)

so this is the final balance:

- used Coop 6 speed gearbox (with 1 synchronizer broken)
- used Coop 6 speed selector
- new 6 speed gearbox support
- used Alfa 166 2.4 jtd 6 speed gearbox
- fully refurbished 6 speed gearbox with new final drive
- swap in gearboxes

all the work tooks 1320 €

now some pics (quality not perfect)

used 6 speed gearbox

click to enlarge

6 speed gearbox refurbished
click to enlarge

6 speed gearbox refurbished
click to enlarge

working on the car
click to enlarge

working on the car
click to enlarge

working on the car
click to enlarge

me and the car after the surgery !!! laugh
click to enlarge

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1539193
26/05/2015 00:18
26/05/2015 00:18
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
Ferrarist Offline
Enjoying the ride
Ferrarist  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 549
Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: Gimmo

A 166 gearbox Will be direct-fit under the Coop?

Originally Posted By: hangar1138
when the two gearboxes will come back I will post some pics to reveal the mistery.... biglaugh

Any info?


20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1539216
26/05/2015 11:02
26/05/2015 11:02
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
hangar1138 Offline OP
Club member 1472
hangar1138  Offline OP
Club member 1472
Making a profit

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 297
Italy, Reggio Emilia
sorry cant confirm 100%

I didn't have had time to check in the detalis everything

they seem identical if I look at the bell

I can confirm that:

- the internals are interchangeable
- the diff alfa does not provide viscodrive installation
- you can swap 6 speed primary and secondary shaft only with 6 speed shaft of course

more info here:

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1312796

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=875370

http://www.fiatcoupeclub.org/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=859626#Post859626

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1556014
24/11/2015 10:25
24/11/2015 10:25

T
thetopkiddy
Unregistered
thetopkiddy
Unregistered
T



bellhousings are the same I have 6 speed coupe box fitted to 2.4 20v jtd

Re: 6 speed gearbox Alfa upgrade [Re: hangar1138] #1641874
18/06/2020 11:27
18/06/2020 11:27
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1
Drávacsepely, Hungary
C
cimrider_hun Offline
Newbie
cimrider_hun  Offline
Newbie
C

Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 1
Drávacsepely, Hungary
Hello my friends. I put the 166 Alfa 6 speed gearbox to the 20vt engine, But i need the gearbox mount support from the coupe 6 speed. The alfa 147 mount support is too long, the other support from the 2.4 JTD marea is to short. I build a 6 speed(VLSD) 20V Turbo HGT in Hungary smile


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.3.19 Page Time: 0.021s Queries: 14 (0.010s) Memory: 0.8906 MB (Peak: 1.1043 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2020-07-11 14:22:59 UTC