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How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? #1659540
10/08/2022 13:00
10/08/2022 13:00
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Isle of Wight,
My friend has a Lancia Delta intergralle Evo ll and we were discussing what gives it a quicker 0-60. Evo is 50 kg heavier, 10 bhp less, and one gear less. And yet it has a 0-60 of 5.7sec compared to 6.5sec for my 20vt. Top speed is lower which might suggest gearing, but my 20vt has 6 gears so I can't think the Evo would be that much shorter. The only real difference is 4wd, but that shouldn't make a difference on a dry road, just as in the early days of 4wd in rallying when they would loose out to the 2wd cars on tarmac. BTW, this is only a theoretical discussion, we have never tried to race each other, nor would we.


20VT, Aston DBS (1968) restomod
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659544
10/08/2022 14:58
10/08/2022 14:58
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
Forum is my life
Trappy  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
It really is just the 4WD. It makes a huge difference.

I've added the data for the Evo2 to my spreadsheet and added a summary of it alongside a 20v Turbo 6 for comparison.

Attached Files
Lancia Delta Evo2.png (95 downloads)
Last edited by Trappy; 10/08/2022 15:07.

F****** b****** thing...
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659545
10/08/2022 17:46
10/08/2022 17:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 112
Essex
1
1st_things_1st Offline
Club member 1460
1st_things_1st  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 112
Essex
Autocar tested the 20v turbo and got 0-60 mph in 6.0 seconds dead.

I think you have to give it about 3000 revs, then dump the clutch to get those figures. Don't try this at home unless you like the smell of clutch in the morning. laugh

Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659558
10/08/2022 21:40
10/08/2022 21:40
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Isle of Wight,
Skiday Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Skiday  Offline OP
Club Member 1700
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 277
Isle of Wight,
Hmmm. I'm not suggesting that the 4wd isn't the advantage, but to my simple mind, if that's the thing, then how does any 2wd fwd ever beat 5.5sec, or does a 2wd have to be rwd to achieve that?


20VT, Aston DBS (1968) restomod
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659559
10/08/2022 23:02
10/08/2022 23:02
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
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Trappy  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Originally Posted by Skiday
Hmmm. I'm not suggesting that the 4wd isn't the advantage, but to my simple mind, if that's the thing, then how does any 2wd fwd ever beat 5.5sec, or does a 2wd have to be rwd to achieve that?


200bhp will break traction up until around 30mph. After that, all is equal. If you have 300bhp, it might be around 40mph, but after that, you can reduce the 40-60mph and duck under 6 seconds. All that extra power can only influence the increment that it can't break traction
Think of it as a ceiling on maximum acceleration. I have max g listed on the attachments above.

I'll go over the spreadsheet tomorrow and show some examples. Weight distribution also helps a lot, as do more modern tyres. A Coupé with over 400bhp and track day tyres should be able to dip under 5 seconds.


F****** b****** thing...
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659571
11/08/2022 09:03
11/08/2022 09:03
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
Forum is my life
Trappy  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
My car at 220bhp, 217lbs/ft
0-10mph 0.8
0-20mph 1.7
0-30mph 2.5
0-40mph 3.4
0-50mph 4.8
0-60mph 6.0
0-70mph 7.8
0-80mph 9.7
0-90mph 11.9
0-100mph 14.8
0-110mph 18.2
0-120mph 22.3
0-130mph 28.0
0-140mph 37.5
0-150mph 56.8

My car at 450bhp, 370lbs/ft
0-10mph 0.8
0-20mph 1.7
0-30mph 2.5
0-40mph 3.4
0-50mph 4.5
0-60mph 5.4
0-70mph 6.2
0-80mph 7.1
0-90mph 8.4
0-100mph 9.4
0-110mph 10.6
0-120mph 12.0
0-130mph 14.0
0-140mph 15.9
0-150mph 18.2
0-160mph 21.4
0-170mph 25.2
0-180mph 30.4
0-190mph 39.4

DLT's car at 622bhp, 490lbs/ft
0-10mph 0.8
0-20mph 1.7
0-30mph 2.5
0-40mph 3.4
0-50mph 4.5
0-60mph 5.4
0-70mph 6.2
0-80mph 7.4
0-90mph 8.2
0-100mph 9.1
0-110mph 10.0
0-120mph 11.2
0-130mph 12.3
0-140mph 13.4
0-150mph 14.8
0-160mph 16.7
0-170mph 18.6
0-180mph 20.8
0-190mph 23.6

I've set up the spreadsheet so both sets are on what I call 'intermidiate' tyres. The sort of thing the Coupé came with when new so the standard car increments matches with road test data of the time. As you can see, performance from stand still is exactly the same. This is that ceiling I mentioned earlier and no amount of power will improve this. Once the standard car has fully hooked up (which is clearly somewhere between 30 and 40mph as the performance differ from here) the car with more power can then begin to pull away. For a bit of fun, I've added a data set for DLT's 20v Turbo when it made 622bhp. As you can see, the performance all the way up to 70mph is the same as mine. You can't put down any more power than 450bhp on cheap old tyres.

Clearly, better tyres will help with performance at lower speeds. Here's a data set for a standard car with track day rubber:
0-10mph 0.7
0-20mph 1.5
0-30mph 2.2
0-40mph 3.0
0-50mph 4.4
0-60mph 5.6
0-70mph 7.4
0-80mph 9.3
0-90mph 11.5
0-100mph 14.4
0-110mph 17.8
0-120mph 21.9
0-130mph 27.6
0-140mph 37.1
0-150mph 56.4

This shows why the Coupé can still be competitive with modern machinery. Road test data doesn't tell the whole picture as tyre technology has moved on so much since ours plodded up the test strip wearing P-Zeros in 1996. The numbers above would still be very good measured against new FWD cars today.


F****** b****** thing...
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Skiday] #1659577
11/08/2022 12:50
11/08/2022 12:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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Nigel  Offline
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Posts: 17,366
Staffordshire
Be interesting to factor in some sticky rubber AND a treated dragstrip. My 'seat of the pants' dyno reckoned my old Coupe was under 5 seconds 0-60 at Santa Pod - it was noticeably quicker off the line than on a normal road surface (at least up until the extra traction detonated the differential....)

Last edited by Nigel; 11/08/2022 12:50.

[Linked Image]
Re: How is Lancia Delta evo2 quicker? [Re: Nigel] #1659583
11/08/2022 14:12
11/08/2022 14:12
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Trappy Offline
Forum is my life
Trappy  Offline
Forum is my life

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,390
Essex
Originally Posted by Nigel
Be interesting to factor in some sticky rubber AND a treated dragstrip. My 'seat of the pants' dyno reckoned my old Coupe was under 5 seconds 0-60 at Santa Pod - it was noticeably quicker off the line than on a normal road surface (at least up until the extra traction detonated the differential....)


Here's what I have for a standard Coupé on track day tyres, on a dragstrip (and therefore timed with a 1 foot rollout). I should think your Coupé would have been getting on for 4.5 seconds to 60mph.

0-10mph 0.4
0-20mph 1.1
0-30mph 1.8
0-40mph 2.5
0-50mph 3.9
0-60mph 5.1
0-70mph 6.9
0-80mph 8.8
0-90mph 10.9
0-100mph 13.8
0-110mph 17.1
0-120mph 21.2
0-130mph 26.8
0-140mph 36.3
0-150mph 55.3

Distance Time Mph
60ft 2.05 @34.3
330ft 5.71 @64.5
1/8 Mile 8.81 @80.3
1000ft 11.48 @92.5
1/4 Mile 13.73 @99.6
Actual 1/4 Terminal: @99.9


F****** b****** thing...

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