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20VT Plus #1670399
29/02/2024 01:38
29/02/2024 01:38
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hello peeps,

I'm considering buying a 2000 Turbo Plus in Broom Yellow with the factory sunroof (muchos importante for me). It's done 200,000 miles in the hands of a forum member who I can't name. It's at Autosportivo in Bedford and it appears to be a pukka car. Massive service history, looks immaculate and I'm in love.
Apparently it needs nothing and has been a featured car on the Front Cover of Auto Italia magazine. Am I crazy to be considering it and how much should I pay?
All thoughts welcomed
Alan

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670401
29/02/2024 11:52
29/02/2024 11:52
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
If I was going to view a 200k mile Coupe there are a number of questions I'd ask and a list of checks that would need ticking for me to be confident with parting with my money, at that mileage it would frighten 99% of people away as the majority of potential buyers looking to come in or back to the fold are always seeking out low mileage examples so they wouldn't consider this and probably wouldn't even bother viewing, the only difference here is it's a Yellow Plus which as you've learned are rare.

My questions would be:

Has any rust been repaired underneath and if so are there any pictures to show it was done correctly.
Is the underside covered in underseal.
Do the subframes look rusty, rear trailing arms etc.
What new components have been fitted in the past 5yrs, ie suspension, brakes etc.
Has the 6sp gearbox been rebuilt in its lifetime.
Is it the original engine.
What is the engine compression test results, leak down test would also be useful.
What's the oil pressure hot and cold, and has the engine ever been repaired.
What's the condition of the coolant system, hoses and a/c condenser and pipework.
Basic one, are all the keys present and work, code card, working key fobs.
Does the service history make sense, stamped book would be full at 200k.
Are quality branded tyres fitted, that says a lot about the previous owner.
Does it look rolled in glitter!

Price wise these days a Coupe is only worth what someone is willing to pay, what's the price tag Alan?

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670402
29/02/2024 16:23
29/02/2024 16:23
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 31
Sandhurst, Berkshire, UK
Sandhurst Offline
Club member 2084
Sandhurst  Offline
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Discoverer

Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 31
Sandhurst, Berkshire, UK
Hi Montydog,

Off topic a little (apologies), but did you give up on W159 SBD on Autotrader? Before I got my 20vt I did consider this one so I am wondering what the issues with the car were. Just being nosey :-)

Good luck in your search for a Broom Yellow car. They do look the dog's gonads in yellow to be sure.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Sandhurst] #1670403
29/02/2024 16:53
29/02/2024 16:53
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hi, no I haven't given up on W159 SBD. I put a deposit on it a couple of weeks ago and I was waiting for it to come off SORN and get a new MOT which it passed today. I'm test driving it on Saturday. It's between that one and another broom yellow Plus with the oh so important to me factory sunroof which I'm looking at on Monday. If I don't buy W159 SBD, I would be very happy to give you my thoughts on it if that would be helpful.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Countrycruising] #1670405
29/02/2024 17:11
29/02/2024 17:11
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
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montydog  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hi and thanks for the extensive and detailed advice on what to look for on the high mileage coupe. It is a long story with this car. It was owned by a forum member and has featured on the front cover of AutoItalia magazine.The registration number is S20 VTS - does that ring any bells with you? If you go to the Autosportivo website and scroll through the list of short videos, you will see it with the magazine briefly featured. Apparently it is a very well known car in forum circles. I'm going to look at it on Monday and I'll bear your advice in mind. An Australian saw that short video and bought the car intending to import it to Australia. He was incredibly determined to have it as he would have to wait until May 2025 for it to be eligible for import. On top of that he would have shipping costs and import tariff to pay on top of 14 months of UK storage costs. He could clearly see that this quite a unique car with amazing provenance and wasn't going to be deflected. I have spent the last month trying to persuade him to sell it to me. We have just agreed a price which a bit daft but as you say - it's worth what someone is willing to pay. As far as I know, it's the only yellow Plus with the factory sunroof in the UK.
Thanks again for your help and any further thoughts would useful.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670407
29/02/2024 17:28
29/02/2024 17:28
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
The registration doesn't show on my database but I do have a copy of Autoitalia with that vehicle on front page.

Now I've seen the reg I can see it was tested in August 2023 and passed with a list of advisories, corrosion being one so I'm going to assume it's pretty genuine underneath and untouched.

Advisory Notices

Offside front brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c))
Offside front integral body structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced sill (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Oil leak, but not excessive (8.4.1 (a) (i))
Rear service brake low efficiency
Rear integral body structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced both side sills (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Rear suspension component corroded but not seriously weakened (5.3.3 (b) (i))

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Countrycruising] #1670408
29/02/2024 17:32
29/02/2024 17:32
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Excellent - I had checked that. The current reg no is different to the plate on the front cover which is W949 YKK. I've looked at the Plus register on here but it doesn't show up. He may well have been a club member.

Last edited by montydog; 29/02/2024 17:33.
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Countrycruising] #1670409
29/02/2024 17:44
29/02/2024 17:44
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hi again,
Can you tell me the issue number of the magazine featuring the car please. Thanks.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670412
29/02/2024 18:19
29/02/2024 18:19
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline
Club Rep Europe, member 914
Countrycruising  Offline
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Forum veteran

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,176
FCSS 01684 593187
Yes I've found it, issue 224 October 2014, used to belong to John Anastasio who's well known on here.


Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Countrycruising] #1670422
01/03/2024 14:08
01/03/2024 14:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,510
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
PeteP  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,510
Aldershot
Originally Posted by Countrycruising
Yes I've found it, issue 224 October 2014, used to belong to John Anastasio who's well known on here.

Another ULEZ victim I fear. We had John's Yellow Plus on the club stand at the NEC Lancaster Insurance Classic Show back in November 2018.


16VT and X1/9 1500

We must all do our part for the planet.
I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670439
02/03/2024 09:00
02/03/2024 09:00
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 31
Sandhurst, Berkshire, UK
Sandhurst Offline
Club member 2084
Sandhurst  Offline
Club member 2084
Discoverer

Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 31
Sandhurst, Berkshire, UK
Hi, good luck with the viewing today. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the car. I was thinking about this one before I got mine. It does look great.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Sandhurst] #1670443
02/03/2024 17:53
02/03/2024 17:53
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hi, I drove W159SBD this afternoon. It's a really good car, drives very well, no knocks, squeaks or rattles. Interior is mint. My only reservation is that it's had a mediocre respray and could do with a MOP session. If John Anastasio's old car isn't perfect, I'll be buying W159SBD.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1670865
23/03/2024 15:09
23/03/2024 15:09
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Devon
W
Woka Offline
Newbie
Woka  Offline
Newbie
W

Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3
Devon
I'm in the same town as the yellow plus you mention. The shade of yellow looked off to me. Also, if I recall it was overdue a cambelt change. I'm holding out for a sprint blue plus.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Woka] #1670866
23/03/2024 15:30
23/03/2024 15:30
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Good luck. There are very few Plus Coupes around. Put the word out on the various Facebook groups and contact specialists and tell them what you're looking for. The chances are that really good cars will sell under the radar and never make it to the usual used car sites.
M

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671304
15/04/2024 14:45
15/04/2024 14:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
I remember Serg1 buying this car; it was advertised on here and from Maidstone, Kent; it was used as a motorway daily driver to London and back daily by the previous owner and it had about circa 180K+ on it when sold to Serg1. It was sold for peanuts in the £00's due I guess to the galactic mileage and prices then....Serg1 then put some money into the car, but being a London car guess it has been outed courtesy of Khan's cash grab. I remember leaving Horsham Italian car event few year's ago, few of us with Serg1 heading back to M25 and opening mine up towards the motorway, he didn't follow, I guess the 200K on the lump playing on his mind wink

Last edited by Submariner; 15/04/2024 14:55.
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671344
16/04/2024 07:35
16/04/2024 07:35
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
For a car which is looked after, serviced, and regularly used, 200k is hardly galactic... indeed, it's barely run in laugh

Think about a thirty year old car - six or seven thousand miles a year? It's hardly heavy usage...

(I hate those journalists in the 'classic car' magazines who get so orgasmic over fifty year old Ferraris with only three thousand kilometers on the clock... it's for driving; bloody drive it!)

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671348
16/04/2024 09:12
16/04/2024 09:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
I have no idea what this car was up for but given their prices I am thinking a fair old wad so condition, history and mileage were/are all factors to consider especially if you see a Plus/LE as an 'investment', personally I see no real world advantage in purchasing a Plus or LE and never have, I would not pay a premium for such, but then my Coupe is a 'daily' (1500miles a year) not a Garage Queen; A 200K mile 'daily' is significant mileage to put on a Coupe, apart from running gear/engine we all know that the common rust issues cause the most problems/££££s, That said I am ignorant of service/maintenence of this example; it certainly looked nice when I had a quick look round it and belied the mileage upon it..

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Submariner] #1671364
16/04/2024 14:25
16/04/2024 14:25
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Originally Posted by Submariner
I remember Serg1 buying this car; it was advertised on here and from Maidstone, Kent; it was used as a motorway daily driver to London and back daily by the previous owner and it had about circa 180K+ on it when sold to Serg1. It was sold for peanuts in the £00's due I guess to the galactic mileage and prices then....Serg1 then put some money into the car, but being a London car guess it has been outed courtesy of Khan's cash grab. I remember leaving Horsham Italian car event few year's ago, few of us with Serg1 heading back to M25 and opening mine up towards the motorway, he didn't follow, I guess the 200K on the lump playing on his mind wink


Hi Submariner,
Very useful information about the previous usage of my Coupe. I've been through the service history which reveals that the first owner put an average of 40,000 miles a year on the car for it's first 4 years and it was sold in mid 2004 with 167,800 miles. The next owner kept it for 9 years and sold it to Serg1 at 187,000. He owned it for 10 years until this February and put 5,000 miles on it. During his ownership, it was a front cover feature car on AutoItalia Magazine October 2014 edition.The car currently has 191,000 miles. The fact that my car has covered 88% of it's mileage on the motorway explains why it's still on it's original engine, gearbox and turbo with no rebuilds, It starts on the button, there is no smoke and it holds 2.5 bar at hot idle. I have just spent quite a lot of money having all the rust cut out underneath and new metal let in (not a huge amount but a lot of fiddly small bits) and having it rustproofed with Dinitrol wax in the box sections and Dinitrol underseal on the rest of the underpinnings. The car was resprayed and refurbished 10 years ago and looks great from 10 feet away but on closer inspection, their are a lot of small imperfections in the paint. I'm going to see how much can be machine polished out and whether I can justify respraying the worst bits (bonnet and boot). Overall, I am very pleased with the car as I don't think I would ever find another yellow plus with the essential-to-me factory sunroof. I intend to use my coupe sparingly but regularly throughout the year taking it to local Alfa club meets (I have two Alfas so it gets honorary admission!) and Italian car days locally.

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671378
16/04/2024 19:46
16/04/2024 19:46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,545
Berlin
Currently my coupe has 190k miles on it. Before I moved to Germany I had two Bravos, with a total of about 470k miles on them (and one of those written off in an accident with 260k). Neither of these had any bodywork or rust repair as far as I remember; the coupe has certainly had some, but it was a daily driver for many many years and lived outside for most of them.

I don't agree with the fashionable view that Fiats rust, any more than any other thirty year old car does... and to be honest, if the rust has been attended to, the other wearable parts are more likely to have been replaced on a high mileage car. Road salt will kill any car, of course...

There are of course utter dogs, badly treated and uncared-for, in any marque including the coupe.

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671381
16/04/2024 21:54
16/04/2024 21:54
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 650
Cleveland
P
PaulL Online yippee
Club Member 1872, Regional Rep N.E.
PaulL  Online Yippee
Club Member 1872, Regional Rep N.E.
Enjoying the ride
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 650
Cleveland
Hello Monty

I'm pleased that you are enjoying your car, driving and looking at it.

If you have the money, then spend what you feel comfortable with.

Otherwise, drive it, and attend to issues as they arrive.

With the age and mileage, perfection is unlikely to be achievable .
If you have the time, do a little bit of work regularly, to keep the appearance up and the car running smoothly.

Best wishes

Paul

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: PaulL] #1671390
Yesterday at 07:13
Yesterday at 07:13
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Thank you, Paul

Re: 20VT Plus [Re: montydog] #1671403
Yesterday at 13:14
Yesterday at 13:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Originally Posted by montydog
Originally Posted by Submariner
I remember Serg1 buying this car; it was advertised on here and from Maidstone, Kent; it was used as a motorway daily driver to London and back daily by the previous owner and it had about circa 180K+ on it when sold to Serg1. It was sold for peanuts in the £00's due I guess to the galactic mileage and prices then....Serg1 then put some money into the car, but being a London car guess it has been outed courtesy of Khan's cash grab. I remember leaving Horsham Italian car event few year's ago, few of us with Serg1 heading back to M25 and opening mine up towards the motorway, he didn't follow, I guess the 200K on the lump playing on his mind wink


Hi Submariner,
Very useful information about the previous usage of my Coupe. I've been through the service history which reveals that the first owner put an average of 40,000 miles a year on the car for it's first 4 years and it was sold in mid 2004 with 167,800 miles. The next owner kept it for 9 years and sold it to Serg1 at 187,000. He owned it for 10 years until this February and put 5,000 miles on it. During his ownership, it was a front cover feature car on AutoItalia Magazine October 2014 edition.The car currently has 191,000 miles. The fact that my car has covered 88% of it's mileage on the motorway explains why it's still on it's original engine, gearbox and turbo with no rebuilds, It starts on the button, there is no smoke and it holds 2.5 bar at hot idle. I have just spent quite a lot of money having all the rust cut out underneath and new metal let in (not a huge amount but a lot of fiddly small bits) and having it rustproofed with Dinitrol wax in the box sections and Dinitrol underseal on the rest of the underpinnings. The car was resprayed and refurbished 10 years ago and looks great from 10 feet away but on closer inspection, their are a lot of small imperfections in the paint. I'm going to see how much can be machine polished out and whether I can justify respraying the worst bits (bonnet and boot). Overall, I am very pleased with the car as I don't think I would ever find another yellow plus with the essential-to-me factory sunroof. I intend to use my coupe sparingly but regularly throughout the year taking it to local Alfa club meets (I have two Alfas so it gets honorary admission!) and Italian car days locally.


Original Turbo!!!! That's longevity, mine is on 119K with the original turbo...I don't have any previous identified rust issues underneath (well had the rear boot seam done and front arch area behind both front wheels) nothing ever on MOT but looked yesterday and there are some missing patches of protector/surface rust appearing and lower sills need treating so Bilt Hamber or Lanshield/ACF 50 in a few weeks if it ever warms up.

What is the penchant for a sunroof? My Sprinty has one and I think I would prefer without for looks, lines and headroom?

Your car sounds like it is in safe hands, enjoy it!

Last edited by Submariner; Yesterday at 13:21.
Re: 20VT Plus [Re: Submariner] #1671435
5 hours ago
5 hours ago
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
montydog Offline OP
Discoverer
montydog  Offline OP
Discoverer

Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 44
South Brent
Hi again,
Have you taken the wheel arch liners off and checked the inner edges of the wheel arches? This seems to be a common place where they start to go.
As for the sunroof thing I think it's a matter of personal taste. I've always tried to get cars with opening sunroofs. I'm only average height so headroom is not an issue and I love the feeling of fresh air and sunlight coming from above my head. If there was a drug to cure it, I'd take it!


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