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20VT 630ccm Injectors problem #1676238
22/05/2025 05:21
22/05/2025 05:21
Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
M
Marcel769 Offline OP
Newbie
Marcel769  Offline OP
Newbie
M

Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
Hey guys,
I've tuned my 20VT with an emulator and Bosch EV14 630cc injectors. Idle is fine, partial throttle with the original oxygen sensor is fine.
Full throttle is fine too.

But the problem is when the engine is warm and you turn it off and then back on again, for example when refueling, it initially runs way too rich with a black cloud coming out of the exhaust. After a few seconds, it's at 14.7 AFR and everything's fine.

The dead time in the map is already at the minimum and can't be lowered any further.

It's probably related to that, because if you increase the dead time, it gets even worse and you have to rev the car for several seconds to even start. Does anyone have any tips on how to get this problem under control?

Last edited by Marcel769; 22/05/2025 05:23.
Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676242
22/05/2025 07:40
22/05/2025 07:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,250
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989, Area rep East Midlands
Jamiepm  Offline
Club member 1989, Area rep East Midlands
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,250
Drakelow
Best suggestion is to try and make contact with Flea aka Leighton who runs a business called Sabre tuning near Bristol

He has tuned more coupes than anyone else

Cheers Jamie


She's alive, again
Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676243
22/05/2025 07:48
22/05/2025 07:48
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
clanger Offline
Making a profit
clanger  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
You need to monitor and data log the Lambda Integrator under closed loop running using MES. You can do this for idle at rest and whilst driving up to moderate speeds. In all cases you need to get the figure as close to zero as possible by adjusting the fueling - having first got the dead times as close as you can.

Use MES and monitor the Integrtor at idle, adjust the dead times until you get the integrator figure as close as possible to zero. Keep in mind only 4 of the data points are really used, don't worry too much about the left side of the map. After that work and using the same principal, work on the fuel maps at rest and then on the road and data logging.

You don't mention your engine spec but you are running absolutely huge injectors. I have a hybrid turbo and run E85 using 385cc EV14. I had to dial back the low speed fueling considerably to get within spec. I very much doubt you have run out of dead time map. I think your injectors are just too big, you need to remove more fuel but will only know how much and where by monitoring the Lambda Integrator.

Last edited by clanger; 22/05/2025 07:54. Reason: typo

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Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Jamiepm] #1676244
22/05/2025 07:51
22/05/2025 07:51
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
clanger Offline
Making a profit
clanger  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
Originally Posted by Jamiepm
Best suggestion is to try and make contact with Flea aka Leighton who runs a business called Sabre tuning near Bristol

He has tuned more coupes than anyone else

Cheers Jamie


The issue is this is a self tune Jamie and Mr Flea gives nothing away for free - no issue there from me but Germany is a fair distance with a car running like a dog.


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Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: clanger] #1676245
22/05/2025 08:32
22/05/2025 08:32
Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
M
Marcel769 Offline OP
Newbie
Marcel769  Offline OP
Newbie
M

Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
The problem also occurs when lambda is switched off in the closed-loop map.

The setup is a 2.0-liter forged engine with a 2.4-liter head.
Bosch EV14 630cc
GT 2871 64ar
3-inch intake
3-inch exhaust through-pipe
Exhaust manifold
Large intercooler mounted in the bumper. Boost control by RPM
4300 RPM 1.8 bar
7000 RPM 1.7 bar
The car drives very well the only issue is warm starting.

Last edited by Marcel769; 22/05/2025 08:36.
Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676246
22/05/2025 08:51
22/05/2025 08:51
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
clanger Offline
Making a profit
clanger  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
I would imagine it does, more than likely makes it worse! What numbers do the fuel trims report?


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Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: clanger] #1676247
22/05/2025 09:08
22/05/2025 09:08
Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
M
Marcel769 Offline OP
Newbie
Marcel769  Offline OP
Newbie
M

Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
Sorry, what do you mean by that?
How can I add photos here?
Then I could upload a photo of the deadtime map

Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676248
22/05/2025 09:36
22/05/2025 09:36
Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
M
Marcel769 Offline OP
Newbie
Marcel769  Offline OP
Newbie
M

Joined: May 2025
Posts: 7
Deutschland/Fehmarn
Could the problem be related to the mass air flow sensor housing?
I always read here that for coupes with large injectors, a larger housing was used.

Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676249
22/05/2025 09:53
22/05/2025 09:53
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
clanger Offline
Making a profit
clanger  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 362
Free State of Jones
The dead time map being incorrect will not cause black smoke. You have a significant fueling issue. I have answered your PM


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Re: 20VT 630ccm Injectors problem [Re: Marcel769] #1676250
22/05/2025 11:10
22/05/2025 11:10
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,394
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Online content
Club President, member225
Edinburgh  Online Content
Club President, member225
Forum veteran

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,394
Auld Reekie
Originally Posted by Marcel769
Sorry, what do you mean by that?
How can I add photos here?
Then I could upload a photo of the deadtime map


The answer is here smile

Uploading pics



BumbleBee carer smile

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