hmm....

as some of you may know, I am attempting to keep my OE ECU to run a 2.4 / 2.5, BUT & it's a hesitant but, the sort of driveability I am looking for may make it necessary to start looking at a cheaper & easier was to have a readily programmable ECU on tap <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am no expert yet <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, but I learn quick.

so far, I've browsed the likes of MOTEC, OMEX, Gotech, Perfect Power, Haltech, DTA, VEMS & a few others..... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've also been in contact via a mate regarding using possibly a set of base maps to simply load up & tweak away using a PC.

What I have noticed however is that there is a massive growth in firms that do REALLY good value stuff for very little ( eg : £550 all in for a fully windows literate language, rather than our horrible Bosch units.

In a nutshell I am after some advice as to what could be the probs.

currently for example DTA Pro 8 looks quite compatible, however I have yet to meet / speak to persons who use these piggy back / standalone with ease.

Looking at most, they offer tons of extras that the Coop ECU just doesn't have ( progressive boost control at various setpoints, traction control, advance the list goes on & on.. )

A few also keep knock sensors used ( which Is what I am also after to protect during cold-cycle start-up & part throttle use ).

So.....who's got some advice ? Newgroups to check with etc ? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I am also hoping that I can somehow source a readily made package that literally piggybacks onto the OEM ECU, then needs fine tweaking, which can be done live on the road, rather than having to pay expensive remaps at your friendly r-road operator <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

maybe it's still a pipe-dream, but I am positive it is possible <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

opinions <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And yes, I am also very cost driven to keep this cheap & practical ( hence Motec / Unichip is out of the question, way too costly & also has a reputation amongst tuners for being an easy rip off ).

Taz <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Taz,

I'm on the same boat (but for 16VT).
My research (...whatever) helped me draw two conclusions:

A. don't read all that the ECU can do, but how it does it, if it needs a ton of widgety thingies that have to bolt on, drill on, whatever to your engine, and if none of the original sensors work, then it's not your friendly 500UKP conversion, but 500+400worth of sensors, plus endless hours trying to find how/where/if this thing fits, how to wire it back to the ECU. Needless to say you almost always start with no base maps (i.e. you cannot put everything together and happily turn the ignition and have your engine fire no matter how badly!)

B. get something that someone else with an engine like yours has used (preferably himself alone, not given the car to someone to do it) so that you can have first hand experience on what works and how.

BTW, will somebody PLZ tell me why half these ECU companies are from downunder??? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Cheers Vas.

I understand about the add on's. I have e-mailed a few firms to start seeing what I additionally need to make this lot work ( I thought that initially on the 20V, I would just need a MAP sensor, as all other sensors are present, whether or not they have the right output to the piggyback ECU is another matter ! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

As for base maps, I do have access to quite a few ont he Motec, which could have the values transferred across into a new ECU, no reason why not, as this would contain the basic info, such as throttle positions, loads, various parameters, but as I said, I am no expert, but I will learn quick. My theory, is that if a tuner can learn from the start, I sure as hell can ( well give it a go ).

Most of the new stuff, especially from SA, looks very very comprehensive.

I could also send off a few Eproms to a few firms to let them read what is in the chips to get an idea of how difficult the job could be.

part of these costs is things like loom adapters, this is relatively easy, as oncve you have the cores paired up the FIAT loom, its straightforward, but part of the issue, is getting it all to work together.

I will see what responses I get in the next few days.

Taz <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As i said to you in your first post ages ago the standard ECU is not going to be able to cope with what you want. All i know is that the 2.4 engines all use Motec. If you are serious you can come down to my workshop and discuss further options. Where in the UK are you?

taz - ive done some research into it and i found that the OMEX 749 is ahead in terms of technology over DTA's Pro 8.

however DTA are due to release a new EMS which will take the lead again.

i fancy the OMEX my self, including a 3 bar MAP, and the harness all fitted was working out about £1700.

that was with RR time.

its on the list, a MAP is the ultimate step in reliability, ather than the poor MAF system we currently use.

for now my unichip is doing a great job, and whilst there are now quite a few cars running 350 - 400 bhp with a unichip im not convinced new management is entirely necessary, although if money grew on trees it would be the ultimate mod.

:

Jason / Rog, thanks for your input, much appreciated <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would say that the only real reason the 2.4s use the Motec & the main reason, being that as John originally bit the bullet, he chose to use this brand, but after speaking to a few persons ( including a comment passed on by Ahmed Bajyoo <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> that he could build a full up n' running ECU for the coop using Pectel stuff, which is his bread n' butter ).

I don't think he ever go round to the spare chips thrown his way, but safe to say he could steer me in the right direction. For those not familiar, he is a real Guru in the ford tuning arena, well respected & a nice guy to boot.

As for the DTA, just had an e-mail from Alan who notified me of a new version, but in the mean time the OMEX does look very attractive. I am sending an e-mail as we speak.

Prob with my conversion is that really, it is just that step forward ahead of typical 2.0l tuning, the paramaeters are just too big. I would be very surprised if I see below 400bhp ( the torque is my driving factor ), but even so, I am now scratching my head at twin plate clutches.....

I know others say I should move on, but nah ! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

besides, I've looked at some other motas& they just don't get me juiced up, skylines are so drab looking etc.......porsches, so chest wig....

I like my coop & apart from the blown engine it's mint <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OMEX / Pectel / DTA look to be the favs, but I have also had some encouraging news from VEMS who seem really capable of customising their gear for anybody <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

it's mainly down to the price now, I'd like to keep most of the OEM sensors ( if possible )

@ Jason, can you tell me if the DTA can retain the coop sensors ? I notice you are flogging a lot of stuff at the mo', so I assume not <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I am based in Kent.

cheers

Taz

Pectal = ££££££££££££££££

Taz mate, if u r def going for 2.4 u NEED twin plate. Also if you do decide against a stand alone ecu ur power will be limited and you will hit a wall in the tuning side. The motec or similar will unleash the true potential of the 2.4. Even though my car is unmapped (on 2.0) it is still getting a good result but i know i am on the limit of the standard ecu and the car def needs mapping to unleash the true potential to the extent of mechanical tuning........if ur going 2.4 remember to wear 2 pairs of pants cos ull need em mate <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

DTA uses most of the original sensors. The only ones you have to buy are:
3 BAR MAP SENSOR
Water Temp
Air Temp
Amavel Valve

Then you no longer need the extra crap Fiat give you.

2.4 is already a goe-er. I will not go back to a 2.0ltr.

JUst awaiting a few more avenues.

damn OMEX website keeps crashing ! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

besides, I've ordered so much stuff, it'd be a shame not to fit the lot.

@ Beggers, I thought the Pectel stuff was quite competitive ? I will be buying @ trade cost anyway & probablyh install it myself to keep costs down. Following wiring diags etc is easy. The mapping I will leave up to someone else <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My intention is to get the coop up n' running on the OEM ECU, with my choice ( If O go that way <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) with a NEW ECU loom paired up. Then once at the tuners to load the initial maps, then simply plug in the new ECU <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Still gotta find out prices on Pectel stuff <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jason, can you retain the Cam timing sensor ( magnetic pickup ? ) TPS sensor, rpm sensors ?

I assume the air temp & water temp will just screw into the OEM locations ? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes mate.

We can wire up any ECU you want so no need to pay for harnesses and crap we can make you a new complete loom PM me if you intrested.

Taz, i had always thought the pectal stuff your looking around £1200-ish maybe more, but if your getting it cheapier than this, let me know, as it should be easier for me to do a P'n'P on mine (cossie ecu is very similar to the coupe i.e. the ecu connectors are the same <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

I have the solution to a value for money programmable race computer that won't steal the shirt off your back. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/

The have experience with Volvo 5 cylinders and the 20VT should be no problem.

This Dutch firm will supply you an ECU that will drive the five injectors and the five coils (normally the lower end stuff cannot handle 5 of each) and will still give you a few additional outputs for water injection, second fuel pump etc.. You can also opt for the additional lambda control unit.

I can do you a decent deal on a unit if you are interested, they even have a supplier in the UK ( he might even be able to refer you to a tuner in the UK that will program it for you). Talk to me if you are interested <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It has a very simple windows interface and any experienced engine tuner shouldbe able to master it in no time.

Another option is to go to a tuner that has broadband at his workshop and then they will be able to assist you with the programming/ tuning via the web

Matt,

Thanks. I do remember a long time ago, you mentioned to me via PM about another ECU type ( another SA manufacturer, not Gotech, but some other variant <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> )

Kronerburg look ok actually, so will fire off an e-mail & see their response. Prices are competitive. I firmly believe that this stuff needn't cost the earth, providing you do your homework <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

cheers

Taz <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The ZA guys cannot handle 5 coils and quality/ relaibility is suspect.

As some of you chaps are spending a lot of cash on these engines, would it also not be useful (especially after what happened to Mav) to invest a little bit of time/money/effort into developing a cambelt cover design (or aux belt, whichever will work) in order to stop the aux belt snapping taking out the cambelt and ripping these now expensive engines to pieces?

Just a thought, I know some work was going in to this. It would scare the crap out of me if I spent a fraction of what you guys spend on your engines for a £10 belt to toast most of it. Maybe something has been done already, I'm not sure...

Simma, it goes without saying, but if you do the valves on the Coup you cn do a convrsion that will stop them from being hit by the piston if the belt goes.

taz give andy a call at omex, he's a really nice guy, he writes the software for the omex, his whole family race, I spoke to him for a while when I went to omex to get my 600 series - which is all up and running now.
omex
01242 681044

rich

Don't know if this is any help but a guy on puntosports has one of these for sale
http://www.autronic.com/

http://www.puntosports.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=58719

rich,

does that mean that we (16VT) ppl can ask him and get a ready tested package with all the bits needed without loads of hastle? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
If so, it becomes another viable alternative. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
tbh, I was put off with the explicit diagram with all the bits that can and should (?) be installed (sensor wise that is)

cheers

Vas, did you not see the post i did a few months ago regarding the ECU's for us 16vt'ers?

With the omex you need a new trigger wheel, then modify your loom and calibrate your water and air temp sensors

Omex 600 or 700 series engine management is a good and reasonable priced option.I run Omex 700 management on the car and its great.Good stuff.

Taz

Can do you a deal on a twin plate clutch, and lets face it, you're going to need one

Give Keith at Auto Integrale a bell on 0118 9710 281 if you are interested

Trevor