Hi,

just wondering if anyone has any in depth experience with the squadra chip, I have done a search and it seems to have been developed for a standard car and over fuels to keep temps low.............any other comments on it???

Cheers
John

Think you pretty much summed it up there Don, it over fuels far to much according to our resident chip expert Graham L.

Graham does a better chip with simialar ignition maps but better fueling in the GTEC 2.

PM him and ask him for details.

Raises the rev limit to 7,200 rpm as well I think.

Grahams chip is far far better <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think we should be a bit more concrete with our reasons! If you want 260BHP on a standard car, with potentially the risk of bore wash and pay a few hundred euro go for the Squadra. If you want 250 HP and pay £40ish quid go for the GTEC1 and if you want a bit more, say 260BHP and you have a FMIC then go for the GTEC2. Always get your fuelling checked and run 98 RON with either the Squadra or GTEC2.

Hi,

thanks for the replies so far.....the very helpful JohnS has informed me about the fuelling and the rev limit being being raised also.......I thought the Gtec2 chip is for more modified cars and have been advised to get the Gtec2 after I get my EVO 7 FMIC fitted, I guess im just interested in what the Squadra chip can do as its intended for improving a more or less standard set up.
My set up at the moment is a Stage 1 hybrid (Barbz quick spool jobby) SupperSprint cat back, AVC-R boost controller (peaking at 1.2bar @ around 4000rpm and then droping off to 1.1bar at 5000rpm then to 1.0bar @ 6000rpm to save my engine untill the uprated fuel pump and FMIC is fitted <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), Gtec1, K&N induction kit and 36si dump valve.
Has anybody got one fitted or had any experience of it?

Cheers
John

I know Stephan from squadra. He is a very professional guy, great workshop and knows a lot about tuning car engines, not only by software.

I have both my lancia delta, my alfa 33 and my alfa 75 turbo chipped by him and they run great. And all of the chips come with a correct checksum.

On my delta 2.0 turbo, i used to run the squadra stock ecu that gave about 225hp/340Nm. The chip is designed to give 1,3 bar pressure at mid range, 1 bar at 6000 rpm.

He also does custom tuning
So if you want a chip that will give some extra power and that is still safe, go to Squadra.





I think this is the ideal chip

Hi Dink, I don't think anyone is doubting that he is good. I think the thinking on here tends to be that instead of adding extra fuel to keep charge temps down (which apparently the Squadra does on the coop), you're better off getting an uprated I/C and a chip that doesn't dump extra fuel.

The extra fuel keeps the in cylinder temps down - the charge temps will remain the same. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The problem you'll have with any plug and play chip is that they will perform differently on different coops - even if the set up is identical.

During normal driving, the chip actually makes the car run more economic due to better ignition timing.

the chip doesn't dump extra fuel, it only gives more fuel during full acceleration and at the top end were these engines tend to run lean.


You don't want to put a EVO3 chip on a stock car and the standard chip runs too lean with increased turbo pressure.



But i think you're right, the small intercoolers are one of the biggest bottlenecks. Before i installed the water injection system and a better intercooler, i was taking air at 56°C.

If you could bring this down to say 35°C, you're looking at a rough 7% power gain and possibly more because of the reduced risk of having knock and thus advanced timing

I'll shutup now, as I clearly have no clue what I'm talking about (although this has never stopped me before) <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, in simple terms, can i get a g-tech 1 on my completely standard coop 20vt without getting any other parts at all? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

well you should get a boost gauge and your fuelling checked. Some people say the stock EBV struggles to control the added boost, but personally, I found it fine! Just give the EBV a good clean and maybe get a new recirc dump valve for good measure!

I think part of the problem with the Squadra chip is that they were done on a car that appeared to have a fairly poor voltage feed to the fuel pump under load. So if you do the voltage mod (adds more voltage at the pump by bypassing the original loom) or your loom is just in a better state, or you have an uprated fuel pump it will throw the fuelling map off. That is why people report it is excessively fuelling, and not just at the top-end but in the mid-range as well.

John

Thanks for that........I think if i do manage to get my hands on one at a good price <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> then It might be worth my while just plugging it in and having a play and even forking out on a RR session just to see how it reacts with my car just untill I go another route if circumstances permit (i want a new toy! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Cheers
John

Yeah, their chip was developed in 1 day (based on a novitec) and tested on a single car and it would appear that car had "fuelling issues".

More than 1 person has posted up dyno results after fitting a Squadra where the fuelling was *off the scale* rich, and not just at the top end.

Maybe a little off topic, but what exactly is the problem with the wiring, bad connections?
Is there a topic on this forum that explains how to do it?

A little summary on the Squadra chip and what it does <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Boost increased with 0.2 bar fron std.
Also ignition and off course mixture was set to a better value for this high boosted version.
Also the lambda control area was modified to get is out of lambda control at 2000 RPM.
Next thing was to set the idle speed slightly higher720 RPM is pretty low. Now it runs 800 RPM.
Cam variation switching point was set to an earlier point to get more power at really low revs.
rev limiter about 300 RPM later
This all results in about 350 Nm over a width rev range and a smashing 261 bhp at 6250 RPM..

Just to get everybody up to date. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you vey much!
It sounds impressive...........I'm wondering has anyone else actually got this chip fitted and how they have found the fuelling???

Cheers
John

The issue with the fuel pump is basically the standard loom is fine for a standard car putting a standard amount of fuel out. The more boost you run the more load it puts on the fuel pump as the fuel pump has to operate at a higher pressure, and add to it the increased requirement for fuel as well it leads to a very noticeable voltage drop at the fuel pump. Therefore it is prudent to do the 'voltage mod' which gives the fuel pump a dedicated supply from the battery whilst retaining the original switching (and thus cut off protection). The only downside to this is that it can throw the fuelling off compared to the ECU maps.

Switching the cams over earlier is not necessarily beneficial - if your turbo/engine combination is not 'on cam' in the first place then it will make it even less responsive. I can believe it is useful on the standard turbo, but on some setups, particularly where peak power is made higher than standard (>5750rpm) it is very likely to be counterproductive.
I wasn't aware of it switching off lambda control, but if the fuelling hasn't been tuned to the car this is no good thing IMHO as you could be washing your bores with excessive fuel and the ECU will not attempt to rectify this. Most people don't sit at part throttle at higher RPM so there is less issue with it there. That also indicates that a straight dyno 'power run' may not tell you if you are excessively overfuelling, you would also need to check a selection of other load points.

Well it's all about the facts isn't it. Squadra (not squardra as in the headline) develope trimchips to many italian cars. If you visit their page you'll se an impressive range of cars included from many italian brands.
My own personal opinion is that I trust the Italians that are more skilled on their own cars making a chips than others and that they have my full confidence to make acurate calculations on fuel mapping.

Installing a progressive fuel regulator will help getting the extra fuel when needed. A little off topic on fuel, a sprintblue coupe importet to sweden mapped at 401bhp (in Italy) with a linear Fuel regulator fried because running on a linear regulator. Rebuild and fittet with progressive regulator it works perfect now and I've driven it myself. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And why would they set the camvariator earlier if it would prove efficient? Would be quite stupid...wouldn it??

Anyone that feels insecure about the downs on the squadra chip should email squadra themself instead of just complaining and assuming "that will not work". If they wasn't 441euro I would buy one myself.

Email: info@squadra-tuning.com
Homepage: http://www.squadra-tuning.com

That sounds interesting. I'm running a walbro with standard loom so this might really be worth doing.

I'm unable to find a guide in the FAQ section, and i don't have my wooden contact lenses in.

But in reality it doesn't really achieve that.

This was the dyno plot when Flea tested back to back with Squadra (red - 326bhp @ 6747rpm) and Gtec2 (blue - 327bhp @ 6559rpm). Of course he had other mods as well, but it shows that the timing variator change in the squadra doesn't produce any more low down torque at all. He also found it was running way too rich.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sinister/bhp-sq-vs-g2.jpg

voltage modification
another piece on it

I did the lame technical drawing <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />



As I understand it the facts are they did one car for one day and to me that isn't enough for a chip to be used on a range of cars. I accept the Novitec, Digitec, Millenium OBD etc. chips may have all been done in exactly the same way but the evidence does point to the Squadra chip being particularly bad for fuelling.



and that's your perogative. I wouldn't personally judge
anyones quality of work based on their nationality.




That is not a property of the linear fuel regulator, but a property of bad fuel mapping, and brute-force tuning to overcome that problem.
Our coupe's fuel regulators are rising rate so naturally respond to load. Many other performance cars use exactly the same type and make of fuel regulator as the coupe - including some very exotic cars many running more than twice the power of the coupe as standard.

So just on the Gtech chip questions, at what point of tuning should you go from a Gtech1 to a Gtech2 higher fuelling?!

certainly not until you have uprated the cooling. You also need to run the chip on OPtimax as it advances the ignition a fair bit.

JohnS, Suba:
Thanx as always for your good advices, they are very enlightening.

Definetly going to mod my pump feed now (easy mod with the battery already at the rear <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Thanks, JohnS, voltage mod is all clear now.
(I'm a mechanic, not an electrician <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

And another piece on it <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (my piece)

http://www.lanciahf.eu/modif_pompe.html