help needed! mapping

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help needed! mapping #206814 05/10/2006 21:05 05/10/2006 21:05
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	went today to get my mapping done at red dot put the car on the rollers and it showed a nice smoother curve of power then when they tried putting the mapped chip in it picked up well to 4600rpm then suden drop and picked up again and it kept doing this no matter what they done the standered chip wasnt too bad but still a slight drop there when on 1.2bar will post graphs when i get hold of a scanner.

Re: help needed! mapping #206815 05/10/2006 21:16 05/10/2006 21:16
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	sounds like the boost curve was unstable, this can happen before the car gets used to a new chip, or an overly aggressive boost curve, i.e too much gain. when you say 'mapped' chip, what do you mean? Joe

Re: help needed! mapping #206816 05/10/2006 21:20 05/10/2006 21:20
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	live mapping they where mapping the a chi[ then putting it in do u think thats what it could be? the boost curve was straight as anything no lose of boost throughout the rev range

Re: help needed! mapping #206817 05/10/2006 21:28 05/10/2006 21:28
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Could this be something to do with the EBV, similar to fitting a Gtech without having a PRV or similar fitted beforehand as they conflict? What power did you come out with Nick?!

Re: help needed! mapping #206818 05/10/2006 21:29 05/10/2006 21:29
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote Could this be something to do with the EBV, similar to fitting a Gtech without having a PRV or similar fitted beforehand as they conflict? What power did you come out with Nick?! according to his sig he's using an apexi avcr!

Re: help needed! mapping #206819 05/10/2006 21:31 05/10/2006 21:31
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	on the standered chip at 1.2bar 303bhp and 258 at the wheels i have apexi avcr would a chip conflict with that. thats what the guys said he used the same chip on another fiat coupe and it was fine had same sort of mods as mine just with a MBC rather than EBC Last edited by TurboNick; 05/10/2006 21:32.

Re: help needed! mapping #206820 05/10/2006 21:39 05/10/2006 21:39
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Oh right, I suppose I should of read that before commenting. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> That's the limit of my knowledge on bouncing boost anyway and the only thing I could think of unless there is a problem with the set up of the Apexi?!

Re: help needed! mapping #206821 05/10/2006 21:47 05/10/2006 21:47
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	doubt it barbz fitted it n on standered chip there hadly and lose of power im well confused! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re: help needed! mapping #206822 05/10/2006 21:51 05/10/2006 21:51
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	hmmm, if you are using the AVC-R, then its unlikely to be an unstable boost curve as the EBV is not used anymore, the only difference between the 'good' and 'bad' setup is the new 'mapped' chip. However, if your car was detting, the ECU will pull back the timing and you will get loss of power, do you know how much ignition advance this 'chip used? Joe

Re: help needed! mapping #206823 05/10/2006 22:03 05/10/2006 22:03
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	no i dont know nothink that sounds like a very good answer there joe thanks. but would it pull back at exactly the same time on 2 different chips?

Re: help needed! mapping #206824 05/10/2006 22:29 05/10/2006 22:29
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	It could do, all depends. If your AVC-R is controlling the boost level, therefore the air flow is constant between the two setups, so if power is going down then this would be due to a fuelling or ignition issue, its possible the plugs were breaking down with the extra power of the new chip, the Denso's are notorious for doing this, might be worth considering new plugs? Joe

Re: help needed! mapping #206825 05/10/2006 22:41 05/10/2006 22:41
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Did they change any of the settings on the Apexi AVCR at any stage when doing the mapping? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Re: help needed! mapping #206826 05/10/2006 22:45 05/10/2006 22:45
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	oh man i only just got them. but if it was the plugs would that not mean that it would do the same thing on the standered chip? ill have to get my graphs up so you can see basily with the standered chip at 1.2 bar there an eva so slight drop could even be considered not as drop it stays at the same power fro bout 200rpm then goes up again. but with the chip it drops near enough bout 30bhp then goes up again.

Re: help needed! mapping #206827 05/10/2006 22:56 05/10/2006 22:56
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	If you just got them, that won't be the problem, even standard NGK's can work in a highly tuned coupe for a while at least. yep, lets see the graphs <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Joe

Re: help needed! mapping #206828 05/10/2006 23:00 05/10/2006 23:00
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	ok ill try get em up tonight ill go to my mates and use his scanner.

Re: help needed! mapping #206829 05/10/2006 23:39 05/10/2006 23:39
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	As others have said if they didn't change the settings on the boost controller and only switched the chips then boost should be identical, which only leave fuelling or ignition as the problem. Did they have det cans connected? If so surely they would tell them if it was knocking? If it was hitting the max airflow/fuel-cut point you'd expect a much bigger power drop than you describe so probably not that. Only other thought is maybe something to do with the vvt switchover point, if they were changing that in the chip???

Re: help needed! mapping #206830 06/10/2006 01:48 06/10/2006 01:48
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	how do i upload graphs?

Re: help needed! mapping #206831 06/10/2006 01:55 06/10/2006 01:55
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,588 Essex Rog20VT I need some sleep
Rog20VT I need some sleep Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,588 Essex	you need to host the pictures on the web (photobucket, Fotango etc) and then paste the link to here. www.Poweritalia.com - The UK's leading Fiat Coupe Specialist

Re: help needed! mapping #206832 06/10/2006 02:00 06/10/2006 02:00
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/nik...mgAnch=imgAnch1 ok this is my graph smoth curves are from standered chip and dropping curve is from mapped chip.

Re: help needed! mapping #206833 06/10/2006 02:35 06/10/2006 02:35
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	Quote Did they change any of the settings on the Apexi AVCR at any stage when doing the mapping? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ye they did but no matter the settings there was no difference

Re: help needed! mapping #206834 06/10/2006 15:09 06/10/2006 15:09
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	BTW 15.79 psi is only 1.08bar (not 1.2) P.S Are you running with a cat pipe and standard downpipe? Chris Last edited by Nobby; 06/10/2006 15:11.

Re: help needed! mapping #206835 06/10/2006 16:03 06/10/2006 16:03
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	hmmmm, its a strange curve to be sure. With the standard chip, you get spool up about 4300rpm, and torque builds progressively towards redline, its unusual in that we normally see a flatter torque curve that drops away towards redline if anything. However you are running a gt28rs (0.86) which is running peak effeicincy at 6000+rpm so that could explain that. The boost curve shows that it is not the AVC-R causing the problem, the boost holds true and steady to the redline. The only difference is the chip and you make less power with the modified chip compared to the standard chip. The modified chip runs more torque off boost suggesting it is running a more aggressive ignition map, fuelling should be identical at these points between the two chips, so it is possible that is is detonation on boost or going lean causing det. However you are only running low boost, so you would have to be running ver ylean here to cause det. My only other suggestion is that is the chip does not suit your setup, for the price of the G-tec plug and play chips, and you could well get away with a GTEC2 with your mods you might as well go down that route and see if the problem is replicated? btw do you know what the a/f ratio was during the run?, was it ok? Joe

Re: help needed! mapping #206836 06/10/2006 17:03 06/10/2006 17:03
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Hey Nick a quick question. I swear i see this car around Southgate am i correct?

Re: help needed! mapping #206837 06/10/2006 17:28 06/10/2006 17:28
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	ye your right lol i aint no southgate rude boy tho! lol

Re: help needed! mapping #206838 06/10/2006 17:29 06/10/2006 17:29
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	Quote BTW 15.79 psi is only 1.08bar (not 1.2) P.S Are you running with a cat pipe and standard downpipe? Chris na im running 3" straight through no cat

Re: help needed! mapping #206839 06/10/2006 17:32 06/10/2006 17:32
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	Quote hmmmm, its a strange curve to be sure. With the standard chip, you get spool up about 4300rpm, and torque builds progressively towards redline, its unusual in that we normally see a flatter torque curve that drops away towards redline if anything. However you are running a gt28rs (0.86) which is running peak effeicincy at 6000+rpm so that could explain that. The boost curve shows that it is not the AVC-R causing the problem, the boost holds true and steady to the redline. The only difference is the chip and you make less power with the modified chip compared to the standard chip. The modified chip runs more torque off boost suggesting it is running a more aggressive ignition map, fuelling should be identical at these points between the two chips, so it is possible that is is detonation on boost or going lean causing det. However you are only running low boost, so you would have to be running ver ylean here to cause det. My only other suggestion is that is the chip does not suit your setup, for the price of the G-tec plug and play chips, and you could well get away with a GTEC2 with your mods you might as well go down that route and see if the problem is replicated? btw do you know what the a/f ratio was during the run?, was it ok? Joe fuel machine was broken so they were checkin the fuel by the way the curve was coming out he said cant be the fuel because it picks up after that point and doesnt go up n down around the same area. i think i might have to try a gtec to be honest n go get the car rred. Last edited by TurboNick; 06/10/2006 17:37.

Re: help needed! mapping #206840 06/10/2006 17:33 06/10/2006 17:33
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	The graph looks like one run is with the timing variator on all the time (retarded inlet cam). I guess most people have never tried this, but I've run my car with the VVT on all the way to the redline, and it does drop power like that higher up as you're losing 7 degrees off the cam effectively. That said, it could be something else, I would suggest you get to someone with an ACR reader to watch the ignition advance (bearing in mind it does reduce the advance with more revs anyway), or else you could put the Pierburg valve/EBV back in and see if the ECU also backs off the boost. I presume the fuelling is OK?

Re: help needed! mapping #206841 06/10/2006 17:56 06/10/2006 17:56
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707 TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride
TurboNick OP Enjoying the ride Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 707	fueling should be fine runnin 1.1 bar with walbro last time i checked it was running very very rich.

Re: help needed! mapping #206842 06/10/2006 18:15 06/10/2006 18:15
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Are you back running the standard chip again now? Did the tuning place not charge you or are they having you back for another free run to sort it out? I can send you a chip to try, just to see if the problem is something specific with your mapped chip or a general problem with a sensor or whatever.

Re: help needed! mapping #206843 06/10/2006 18:24 06/10/2006 18:24
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	It looks like they terminated the RR runs at 6,500 - any idea why? The RS would still have been making power with your mods at 7,000 I would have thought? How can you map a car without being able to check the fuelling properly? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

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