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A few tweaks here and there... #240504
18/11/2006 15:37
18/11/2006 15:37
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
Flea Offline OP
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Flea  Offline OP
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Castle Combe
Where to start... well I guess it was back in the Summer when I ditched the v-band for a full 5 stud 3" downpipe and lost just about all low down torque making off-boost driving less than urgent So much so that it made my coupé very black and white i.e. it was either on or it was off! So back to the drawing board, I either revert back to my previous setup, change to a smaller turbo or really have a good think Enter the magician, he needs no introduction, pure genius in a car... Barbz

So we started talking about what could be done and of course the obvious 2.4 conversion sprung up but while I am not a poor man lets just say I couldn't quite commit myself that far Sooo, what to do? Well we both believed that the 2.4 had created a little bit of a chasm between its smaller 2.0 brother. There was no reason not to pursue the 2 litre with a vengeance, it simply required a bit of thought to create the right mix… so that’s what we did

Roll on 3 months and we arrive at the breaking point. The mechanical element had been masterfully put in place by Monsieur Barbz, all it needed now was an engine management up to the job. Going standalone was an option but I wanted to try and force the issue by keeping with the standard Bosch Motronic and Unichip combo which had thus far served me so well. Possible… well first off was running bigger injectors, 440cc the weapon of choice, so this immediately creates an issue with idle, throttle response, closed loop etc. Then we have the fabled MAF creating a restriction at the top end and therefore allowing enough air to flow and fuel accordingly.

At this point I should thank Suba for introducing FCCUKers to the new and undisputed heavyweight champions of Coupé mapping… Perfect Touch The holy grail of Coupé mapping, live mapping, is now a reality! This was much more than a remap, this was a “new” map for a “new” engine going further into the Bosch Motronic than ever before. Rob is the mapping guru at Perfect Touch, a more dedicated or skilled mapper you will not find anywhere. In fact Rob is to mapping what Barbz is to engine building So what could be done? Well the Unichip was tried but just wasn’t capable of such dynamic management. This is not surprising as while it is very effective for fine tuning the standard fuelling setup or even slightly greater, it is unfortunately out of range for more extreme requirements. So the only resource left was for Rob to truly get to grips with the Bosch Motronic… this was no easy task!

After 4 days of battling with bytes and code, relentless exhaust fumes, a multitude of never ending questions from myself, Rob created a brand new base map allowing for perfect idle, throttle response, lambda readings, ignition timing, rpm limiter and POWER I now only have the Unichip controlling my water/methanol injection which works great This is a complete first in coupe tuning (at least in the UK) where the Bosch Motronic has been successfully modified to accommodate such a highly tuned engine. Nice one!

So the results… if you haven’t already scrolled down to this bit

Wheel Power @ 1.5bar

392bhp @ 7000rpm

Flywheel Power @ 1.5bar

420bhp @ 7000rpm

355lbs/ft @ 5500rpm

Not too shabby for a 2 litre Fiat on pump fuel without any nitrous There were so many runs conducted that is hard to recall and certainly most were not saved during the course of developing the new map. The best run from memory produced 398bhp @ the wheels For some reason the fly power is a bit lower than normal due to very low transmission losses of 6%!!! Looking at Suba and TurboNick’s results at Perfect Touch they both had 15% losses, which is just about perfect for FWD, and Nigel and Highwayman had 10-11% which is a little on the low side… but 6%?!!

If we use the Puma racing FWD formula of wheel power +10bhp /0.9 (approximately 12-15% transmission losses) then this gives a fly power of 447bhp and 370lbs/ft… not that it matters as the business end is wheel power

On the road I have to admit that it’s borderline ridiculous… just perfect then Off boost driving is now a pleasure with very good throttle response and super smooth cruising. Thankfully the Apexi can limit the boost in first and second so as to get maximum traction but when 3rd gear lets go I would not be lying to say that it feels quicker than first gear in a standard coupe and requires a strong arm to keep it in check. The top end is really quite something with a huge power band that just keeps holding all the way to redline at 7750rpm… and all at just 1.5bar Yesterday driving back it was horribly wet which meant 4th gear was lighting up the wheels (proper wheel spin!) Just want some dry weather now… maybe at Silverstone

So there we go, another coupe tuning story I like to think I played a small part in this tale (project manager me thinks ) but in reality it comes down to some seriously skilled people pushing the boundaries Barbz is the man, nobody knows more about the coupé and quite simply nobody does it better. Coupled with our new friends Rob and Claudio at Perfect Touch, coupé tuning has just turned another page


[Linked Image]

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240505
18/11/2006 15:48
18/11/2006 15:48

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Well you did what you said you were going to do all those months ago, well done Got no idea about all that gobledegook in the middle but the figures look nice

Bagsy a ride at Silverstone. Purely for comparison purposes obviously

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240506
18/11/2006 16:03
18/11/2006 16:03
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,694
Midlands
MCMike Offline
Club member 2095
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Midlands
Excellent ~ 420 bhp from a 2 litre without nitrous...very impressive, I bet these slippy roads are a real test of nerve, but a whole lot of fun.


1972 Triumph Stag
1984 Alfasud TI
1999 Fiat Coupe Turbo LE
2005 350Z




Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240507
18/11/2006 16:59
18/11/2006 16:59

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This live mapping is really picking up steam. I'll have to save some money for this and an EBC once i get my new exhuast.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240508
18/11/2006 17:01
18/11/2006 17:01

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.....good work there Flea

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240509
18/11/2006 17:14
18/11/2006 17:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 990
Drakelow
Jamiepm Offline
Club member 1989
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 990
Drakelow
flea,
without giving away to much info what else have you added to your set up??

Jamie


She's alive!
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240510
18/11/2006 17:43
18/11/2006 17:43

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Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240511
18/11/2006 18:14
18/11/2006 18:14

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Nice one Flea ! Can't wait to see you in action at Silverstone next week, keeping the Exiges et al honest . Hope you've got your brakes sorted .

Phil

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240512
18/11/2006 18:17
18/11/2006 18:17

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Quote:

flea,
without giving away to much info what else have you added to your set up??

Jamie




Ditto. And any graphs to speak of??

Ross

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240513
18/11/2006 19:55
18/11/2006 19:55

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what turbo are you running then flea?

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240514
18/11/2006 20:06
18/11/2006 20:06

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I take it they have ironed out the live mapping problems they had with Jimbo's car (not being able to access certain maps or something like that)?

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240515
18/11/2006 20:08
18/11/2006 20:08
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,937
North wales
pinin_prestatyn Offline
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Posts: 19,937
North wales
And the crown is stolen and firmly on King Flea's head What a monster



Coopless!
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240516
18/11/2006 20:25
18/11/2006 20:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
Competition Level
Freddan72  Offline
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Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Flea: Have you changed any hardware or did you just do a Live mapping?
Which octane did you use?

Last edited by Freddan72; 18/11/2006 20:28.

Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240517
18/11/2006 20:53
18/11/2006 20:53

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Awesome Flea, you must be so pleased.

So, other than the 2.4's, you've now got the most powerful 1998cc engine in the UK, possibly the world, you lucky git.

Nice one.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240518
18/11/2006 22:25
18/11/2006 22:25

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As said by Matty, awesome Flea!!!!!!!!!!!

392 @ the wheels is insane for a 2ltr FWD maybe its time for a proper LSD?

So whats the full spec of this engine/turbo/ancillaries?

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240519
18/11/2006 22:44
18/11/2006 22:44
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Quote:

Awesome Flea, you must be so pleased.

So, other than the 2.4's, you've now got the most powerful 1998cc engine in the UK, possibly the world, you lucky git.

Nice one.




No, nyssa7 has, 530-ish?


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240520
18/11/2006 22:54
18/11/2006 22:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
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I AM a Coop

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Sandhurst
Oh and well done Flea

Let's see if my plans will beat your output


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240521
18/11/2006 23:17
18/11/2006 23:17

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Quote:

No, nyssa7 has, 530-ish?




Er- actually it was 562 at the last map, but we'll retime the cams, chop out one of the silencers (89db is a joke for a race car) and try again in spring

But Flea's is still an impressive figure given that mine really is a race engine these days

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240522
18/11/2006 23:18
18/11/2006 23:18

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I stand corrected, apologies Nyssa.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240523
18/11/2006 23:20
18/11/2006 23:20
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,937
North wales
pinin_prestatyn Offline
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Posts: 19,937
North wales
Hmm, same engine but it's not a coop though. So Flea is still the daddy



Coopless!
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240524
18/11/2006 23:25
18/11/2006 23:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,985
In an Audi
Taffy20vt Offline
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Posts: 1,985
In an Audi
Excellent results Flea


Ex 432bhp evil

'00 Sprinty 20vt6
'17 S3 Sportback
'69 Amazon 131
Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240525
18/11/2006 23:54
18/11/2006 23:54

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So, is anybody going to tell us what mods is Flea running?


V.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240526
19/11/2006 00:40
19/11/2006 00:40

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I think its all hush hush at the moment. Knowledge = money. So i think your gonna have to speak to Barbz and ask how much and get it actualy fitted yourself before you will know. Impressive power dude.

Ross

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240527
19/11/2006 00:54
19/11/2006 00:54
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,180
Havant, Hampshire.
OO7 Offline
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Is this not up to date then? The RR results match.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240528
19/11/2006 01:01
19/11/2006 01:01

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No. because he got 392 at the wheels this time!!!

Ross

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240529
19/11/2006 01:14
19/11/2006 01:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,180
Havant, Hampshire.
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Posts: 2,180
Havant, Hampshire.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240530
19/11/2006 01:16
19/11/2006 01:16

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h2ypr,

I don't even have a 20VT, I just wanted to know basic things, like, is he running stock internals at this power???
Besides, I'm too far away from Barbz for him to do any work in my car

cheers

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240531
19/11/2006 03:52
19/11/2006 03:52

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Im in the same position. Too far away. But thats the way it has to be! I doubt hes running standard internals. Just because of the power.

Ross

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240532
19/11/2006 04:25
19/11/2006 04:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
JohnS Offline
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Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
Fantastic results!!! I hear it is also relatively lag free which is even more impressive!! Good to hear that the Motronic is finally tamed for 440cc/min injectors too.

Re: A few tweaks here and there... #240533
19/11/2006 05:44
19/11/2006 05:44

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Holy fccuk!! Come on tell us what engine mods you have

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