What ECU’s are out there that will cope with the coop 5 pot engine when mapped to bigger injectors?

MoTec?

I know there is a dutch company that does them too, Matt from SA was talking about it and have seen them advertised in the back of race car engineering magazine.

If you do go MoTeC i know Nyssa7 has managed to go M48 and Ignition expander, instead of direct the M800

I know the M800 will do the job - but it bl**dy expensive. Keith from AI was looking at something far cheaper that would suffice, any other options?

Pretty much anything will run them in batch.

? Could you elaborate a bit please....

If you are mainly after just larger injectors any system will run the injectors in batch more (i.e. not sequential). Keep OE ecu for ignition. A complete Ecu replacment would require 5 coil outputs which is a much bigger deal than running 5 injectors.

Just stay away from DTA trust me.

Not all it's cropped up to be TurboJ? Why's that?

It's a shame the DTA didn't work because you were all up for that one working well

Shame you cant get a Power FC to work on a coupe, best aftermarket ecu i know of

found the dutch one

http://www.enginemanagement.co.uk/

Also typed in "aftermarket ECU for 5 cylinders" and came across a thread on the S2000 forum, out of all place, clicky

I can't go into details now as a lawsuit is pending but I will release the full story when the case is over. Lets just stay away from DTA.

Didnt someone mention that the bosch ecu is fully capable of being fully re-mapped? Just it would need a specialist to do it?

Ross

KMS is meant to be a copy of DTA so I would personally steer clear.

Remember it must be able to fuel and spark in sequential as the original Bosch system can do this.

Try these:

http://www.autronic.com/

http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/

Ross - yes, but I want to be completely satisfied that this can be 100% done without the ECU 'learning' and messing the maps up. I have no interest in re-setting the ECU every 5 minutes, and having to go back for re-maps all the time.

Fair play. I'd take a guess that both Nigel and Flea have spent more than you would with a Motec and getting it set up correctly.

Ross

some ECU from czech republic

http://www.michl-motorsport.cz/eng/ecu.htm

Might be worth dropping Dave Walker an email and asking if his Emerald ECU is capeable of running 5cyl engines. I contacted him over a year ago and it wasn't up to the job but since then I have read he's done an Audi 5cyl and with all the latest Fords using the volvo 5 pot block I would imagine he's got it sorted.
Not sure if anyone reads 'Practical Performance Car' but Dave has an article in their every month talking about the mapping work he does on many various cars, he's a bit of a mapping god

Emerald ECU's

Worth a try !

No Emerald still isn't. The link to the S2 forum (not the s2000 i said earlier) is from a couple of days ago and the reply was no, but they are working on something

5 cyl sequential is the problem in essence for most aftermarket ECUs. Talk to Stichl - he is running a batch injection system on his 2.4.


From the Motec side I would only use an M600 or M800 not an M48Pro as there is some frigging to be done to get that to work.

Have to say the Motec is absolutely fantastic and some of the new features mean that you can create compensation maps for practically anything in 2d or 3d.

The beauty of remapping the oE ECU was supposed to be that it is simple and inexpensive but people seem to be paying the full amount like starting from scratch every time they make a change. It does seem like if you are planning a bunch of changes it might actually be a false economy. Especially since there are things in the program that PT clearly do not understand how to control (adaptivity being the main thing) and compensations they do not change despite the extra power which will throw out the maps in extreme conditions

What do you mean John, that the Unichip mapping from a place like PT is pointless?

not unichipping, but the alternative. Live mapping.

Hmm, would have thought that the only time the motronic ecu 'learns' is when it gets feedback i.e. knock sensors kicked in or fuelling off when on closed-loop (probably other things as well)

In both these cases the ecu adaption is a good thing!

Yes - but on bigger injectors the ECU can't make changes properly as it can't 'see' the difference in size.

With the unichip I thought the ECU was forced into advancing the ignition, i.e. the knock sensors would pull it back, and the unichip would shove it forward - this would continue until the ECU has reached it's maximum capability and the Unichip wins the battle.... hope that makes sense.

Would it be possible to 'live map' the idle / off boost maps, and then switch to the unichip when running on boost (open loop I think.)

but the closed loop fuel map influences the open loop fuel map. Therefore unless the closed loop is perfect the open loop will be thrown out. Same for the ignition compensation

So I could just raise the idle to 3,500 rpm and drive everywhere on boost and I'd be fine then.

yeah. Two ways to get your car to idle at that speed

1. screw in the throttle cable and disconnect the idle control valve connector
2. unscrew the idle control valve and let the engine breath through the hole

Just for comparison guys the Motech ecu is like high end Hi-fi, real high level competition unit. omex or emarald is like good seperates hi fi.

The smart money would go on a Pectel SQ6, but thats significant investment at 2k plus VAT , but it can run up to 8 seq injectors and 8 coils, with 4 switchable maps it could run a hig boost, low boost, 98 or 102+ octane maps, maybe even E85,(perhaps not dissimilar to the motech money).

Omex 710 should work and thats fairly cheap at around the 800gbp mark.

I think you can look at it this way how many unichip remap sessions (time off work etc) do you need to equal the cost of a proper ecu?

In the case of fitting I'd say it not that difficult, just need to rationalise what you are looking at. Engine sensors are usually resistive devices, with a power feed either from the ecu or the live then grounded to the ECU. INjectors are the same as are the coils the ECU controls the grounding. Crank sensors are sheilded cable items connection straigt to the ecu. Fuel pump control is a ground from the lower current side of a relay to the ecu then to ground. When you know how the devices connected to the ecu work with the ecu then you can move onto assessing what wire does what on the std loom. Using a fiat manual and patience you can wouk out which wires are feeds and grounds from the sensors and which one is which, usually theres a common ground. When you have this infor and labelling the new ecu can often be supplied with a partial loom (a wired plug with nothing on the senso end) then is a question of mating the new ecu loom wire with the corresponding ons on the fiat loom. This job is tedious but not really hard. It would take an amature longer to do this but hey you wouldnt have to pay for your time. This perhaps is not an option if the car is the only means of trasport.

http://www.piresearch.com/Cat31-P/EngineControlUnits.aspx
http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/2953.htm
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/Ecus/710/omem710.htm

If you want advice without a big sales push I recommend speaking to Phil Lanes of g&G motosport, hes experince wtih motech, omex and pectel. If theres a software for programming I garauntee he'll be able to map the unit. http://ggmotorsport.co.uk/ (no stupid comments about fan size, he gives turbo cars more then just a few hours on a the rollers, he spreads sessions of a number of days allowing cooling time between runs).

Anyone know if the AEM one works?

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=62