I run standard injectors at 3.8 bar fuel pressure - mapped with a unichip. Plenty of fuel there although the injectors are maxxed out.

Nigel runs bigger injectors the unichip can't deal with so his car has been live mapped.

Suba on Unichip, Nigel on livemap.

JohnS - i thought the extra was solely for extra advance. The extra advance is quite high (on the scale of things) but the mapped suba's the same, and *touch wood* no problems for him.

Ross

Sigh I really should get round to a remap....

What you running just now?

Ross

a Barbz set up Novitec Chip

Just thinking - once you've got to 350bhp (thats 269bhp/ton)

If you go on a big diet and loose 150 kg then you'll have over 300bhp/ton

- nearly the same as going the extra hog/expense/hassle/cost for 400bhp (307bhp/ton):D



Or.... you could just get 400bhp and loose 150kg... (347/ton)

even with a 3.8bar FRP, you're right on the limit of stock 20vt injectors (mine were maxxed even at 300bhp on a stock FPR)

Ross - the reason for the ECU reset is because I WANT it to run right. After a week, its drifted away from a perfect map. So without ANY map, you're going to be no better than my car after a few days without a reset. I can feel the difference as soon as I've done a reset. Therefore, by a simple process of elimination, my car doesn't run at its best unless I'm on the PT map - ergo, when the ECU is left to its own devices, it runs less well. I can't see what you beleive that an unmapped 350bhp car is anything other than a bad idea.

BadBoy - I iused to run a Unichip, but now I'm live mapped

So upgrrade to the 16vt?

Whats involved? Just take off the 20vt and replace with the 16vt?

Similarly the FPR - how do you wasp and wher do you get one?

If I added these things to the car would it be ok before being mapped or would that end in tears?

Questions questions

Oh and Nigel when you say reset teh ECU - do you mean reset it to the Map that PT made for you as as you are using the car the ECU remakes its own map?

(If you get what I mean)

Using the standard injectors over 300bhp is pushing it - I had mine professionally cleaned to make sure I could get the most out of them. The problem is that the unichip can't control the fuelling well off boost so with bigger injectors the standard ECU still 'sees' them as standard and when it makes changes gets very confused. 440 cc injectors would be ideal, but you would need a live map or aftermarket ECU - IMO the live mapped cars on bigger injectors (Nigel, Flea) have had issues with the ECU learning and changing things - which I'm not keen on personally.

I completely agree with Nigel in that going to 300bhp+ mapping the car is a must if you want it to run good power safely.

whether you can or cannot get 350BHP out of the std 330cc/min injectors is a product of how efficient your setup is as much as anything. More boost gives you more fuel through the regulator - if it is a 3 bar regulator then at 1.5 bar boost the fuel rail should have 4.5 bar pressure.
Also the pressure your pump gives makes a difference, and the various Walbro GSS340, 341 and 342 all give slightly different results as does the effectiveness of your pump voltage mod. I think some people have the low pressure walbro 255lph which doesn't give as good results.

This might be really dumb... But can you live map a unichip?

Suba - Where did you get your injectors cleaned?

Would Aquamist not be a good adition to say 330+ for aditional safety?

Thanks
Al

A unichip is always live mapped so to speak.

For cleaning anywhere with an ASNU cleaner will do. LSUK (formerly Lucus) branches often have the equipment - try http://www.lsuk.co.uk

Live map = custom chip for the standard ECU
Unichip = Piggyback ECU that fools the ECU into seeing different values and adjusts the maps via this. Look at the dastek website for details.

Torque Italia sent off my injectors for cleaning.

Aquamist - IMO no, but depends on the setup and whether you want to run it with methanol (you'll need something like a unichip to control a map for this). Without methanol you are effectively slapping water into the cylinders and retarding the ignition - they will run cooler, but you'll also loose power, so you might find that lowering the boost without it gives the same results. If you either start a separate thread or look on the aquamist website you can learn some more. Some chaps like mist and some dont - we're talking proper tuners here. it is certainly relevant for very high boost applications where the car is detting and there's no other way of preventing it.

Would smothing like Auto Integrale's DTA Pro series programmable ECU be a good choice? Motec would be nice...

And more questions I'm afraid -

At which stage do cam's come in? I know that the big power boys are running them...

And also when would a swirl pot etc start to become necessary?

I'm not really sure where the Coupé project is heading at the moment, would really like to go all out but unfortunatly I'm going to have to hold off for another 8months until I graduate, on the plus side I have been offered a job when I do...

The C&B cams are good even if the car is otherwise standard. They are much better than OE and spread the powerband across the whole range.

External swirl pot is probably above 350BHP. When I had 408BHP I used to have problems with the swirl pot emptying in the tank occasionally which can be quite dangerous for your engine as I would have a sudden drop in fuel pressure. As long as you keep the tank over half full when booting it then it isn't such a problem. Shame it does this as there is a different more elegant solution to an external swirl put and pump for in-tank but it won't work on the coupe.

A fully programmable ECU is always a good choice but the cost/benefit is really in the cost of remaps.

Thanks for all the answers guys, Have kind of taken over the thread! (sorry!)

Firstly, your experience of this and that is YOUR experience. I have PLENTY of fuel when i need it. I had an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and had to turn it down to stnd pressure because i already had plenty. Now running stnd 3.0 bar reg again and still LOADS of fuel.

Secondly, "after a week its drifted away from a perfect map"?? Sorry? Thousands of pounds later and the map isnt staying with the ecu for longer than a week without a reset. Who's running the bigger risk? I have a constant setup with my car (running slightly rich midrange and perfect fuelling redline) and have a wideband lamdba gauge to monitor at all times. You, on the other hand, have a narrowband lambda gauge, which is just as good as neon washer jets, and have an "unstable" map which drifts to a lean setup after a week. U have no way of gauging this apart from noticing that your narrowband shows one light less on the rich scale. I have spend money on gauges and fuel regulators (£300), also along with replacing lambda sensor and cleaning map sensor.

I think in the grand scheme of things im actually doing better. More stable, more aware of whats going on, more money in my pocket that hasnt been wasted.

As for an unmapped 350bhp car, who said anything about unmapped? I just dont believe in spending loads of money when a simplier cheaper solution is available.

When i get the time (And money) i will get a rolling road booked to check my new torque/bhp rating, and then i will know whether i have cracked 350bhp or not.

Ross

Edited to say : Anyways, your the one with the probable det problem Nigel. Little end on 5th cylinder away? According to most, 5th cylinder is the one mostly likely to suffer from heat problems, so little end on 5th usually from det.

That was a fair rant!

det will nuke a piston Ross......

This is turning into a fair old post now.

Remind me not to ask how to get 351bhp?!

Nigel I think your situation is as bad as Ross; If your maps are going out then your ECU is not internally balanced and so the adaptive element is causing your map to go off when closed loop. Ross at least knows his will be the same day in day out and accepts the fact he might have the odd rich spot. I think unmapped cars have moved on quite a bit because there is now such a wide selection of chips you can get one that is pretty close to your setup - potentially close enough not to warrant a 400 quid outlay or however much a live map costs.


Ross - I doubt nigel's problem is det, no need to have a dig.

I do. 290bhp in a Coop was enough to keep up just fine with a E46 M3 on the straights. If corners are involved forget it.

The difference is the M3 would do it all day long 365 days per year without a murmur. In a 300bhp Coop you cross your fingers, toes, and stroke your lucky rabbits foot that something doesn't break.

LOL

.
Erm...,depends who's driviing

Boys and their toys.

Time to stick my oar in Just been reading through

I'm gonna make no boasts about power coz I honestly don't know my exact figures the now (hopefully going to get a full remap and new graphs next month). All I know is the car has over 310bhp @ wheels (conservative RR to check fueling which was curtailed when a boost pipe burst) and was making about 380 before the rebuild with forged internals and change of FMIC and manifold.

Personally I think its a big mistake to go for anywhere near 350bhp on standard injectors. Even with uprated regulators etc asking for trouble.

Same goes for standard internals. Running higher boost puts a lot more strain on the ring lands especially even if it isn't detting.

Looking at mapping itself - the leaner the car the more power can be produced - within reason. Thats where mapping becomes a black art! Go too lean and obviously gonna det itself to pieces.

As most of you know I'm running a GT3071wg on a fully rebuilt engine with forged rods and pistons. 3" exhaust, tubular manifold etc

I run 16vt injectors with a Gtec2 Mk1 and these are controlled by a unichip. I have absolutely no problem with the mapps reverting etc. In a perfect world I'd go standalone, but the ££££ is a tad off putting.

In terms of performance I know I'm quicker than a 385bhp evo 7 with carbon bonnet and rear while running 2 up so that shall do for me

Meant to add, I'd love to see some of these cars RR'd together and also raced together

Results could be 'interesting'...

That's good to hear Fergie. I have never experienced any learning either... I thought I had recently but it turns out that my exhaust had split on a mounting bracket which was right next to my wideband lambda Damn thing was getting wider and wider and my fueling was getting leaner and leaner except that it wasn't, just air being sucked in to the gasses!

As for gaining more power from leaning the mixture, yes you can or in the case of PT they like to run it much richer to get more ignition advance. By comparison, Owen Devs run it a lot leaner but the ignition map isn't as aggressive. Horses for courses although I know which one I prefer...

A really good mapper can make mess with the advance at the boost point to really help the spool and then lean it out (within reason) toward the mid range and top to give the best of both worlds.

I would also argue that perfect touch isn't a live map. Its a simulated map the same as a Gtec / squadra is (just customised to your own car). In otherwords its done on a rolling road, not the OPEN ROAD.

Very few folk have the equipment to burn chips and map on the real road. Thats where Motec really comes into its own.

If any of you have ever noticed on the RR boost etc behaves very differently...

Actually PT will map on the rollers and on the road, although most cars will only see the rollers.

In terms of power, there are a number of ways to map a car. PT like to run it richer to get more ignition all the way to redline.