GT28 v GTiR Turbos

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GT28 v GTiR Turbos #470150 30/10/2007 06:52 30/10/2007 06:52
C Chrisbp Unregistered
Chrisbp Unregistered C	Ive got the GTiR, whats the disadvantage as the GT28 seems more popular?

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470171 30/10/2007 13:15 30/10/2007 13:15
1 13ad13oy Unregistered
13ad13oy Unregistered 1	Think it's limited to ~300hp, where as the GT are rated higher...? Could be wrong tho...

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470194 30/10/2007 14:16 30/10/2007 14:16
M Mark_K Unregistered
Mark_K Unregistered M	Top end power really 320bhp from GTiR is pretty much max, the roller bearing turbos will produce more power, but will take longer to spool up(3700-4000rpm I think(unless you are Ross $\:D$ )) where as a GTiR will be at full boost around 3000rpm or just below. The GTiR is just a bolt on replacement and the GT28's need extra bits to fit too. The roller bearings last a bit longer too I believe. I will probably get corrected shortly though. Mark

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470240 30/10/2007 15:52 30/10/2007 15:52
M MattW Unregistered
MattW Unregistered M	Is it possible to get a roller bearing turbo that hits full boost at 3000rpm? 4000rpm is too high for me, dont think I'd like it.

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470260 30/10/2007 16:10 30/10/2007 16:10
N ninja Unregistered
ninja Unregistered N	is it not possible to modify the GTiR to have a roller bearing? what is the GTiR hybrid some people refer to? ninja

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470261 30/10/2007 16:11 30/10/2007 16:11
P Pol Unregistered
Pol Unregistered P	Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm thinking: Ultraspool

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470274 30/10/2007 16:28 30/10/2007 16:28
M Mark_K Unregistered
Mark_K Unregistered M	I don't think any of the roller bearing turbos can be fully on boost by 3000rpm as they are bigger turbos and require longer to spool up. The only other way to reduce the spool up time is headwork, ported manifold or a bigger downpipe as far as I am aware. I believe Ross has one of the ultimate spooling combinations due to his extensive headwork etc, but I can't remember what that is now, not far off of 3000rpm if I remember correctly. I think the ultraspool is a hybrid, not a roller bearing, but it's pretty good. I think the GTiR holds better boost, the superspool spools up quicker, but doesn't hold the boost so well as the GTiR and the ultraspool spools up very quickly and holds the boost better than the superspool, but not quite as good as the GTiR(I think). The Hybrid turbos are more aggresive at coming on boost though and the GT series will be more progressive, depending on the settings of the boost controller of course too. That's my understanding anyway. Mark

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470280 30/10/2007 16:36 30/10/2007 16:36
D davidub Unregistered
davidub Unregistered D	In the current weather I'm getting 1.4 bar by 3k rpm with my rsr. Personally i'd stick with the gti-r until it needs changing, then consider a gt jobbie.

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470289 30/10/2007 16:45 30/10/2007 16:45
M Mark_K Unregistered
Mark_K Unregistered M	Originally Posted By: davidub In the current weather I'm getting 1.4 bar by 3k rpm with my rsr. Personally i'd stick with the gti-r until it needs changing, then consider a gt jobbie. Exactly what I am going to do, but then which GT28 to go for!! Mark

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470295 30/10/2007 16:52 30/10/2007 16:52
P Pol Unregistered
Pol Unregistered P	I got the info on the roller bearing core out of this thread: Hybrid turbo's holding boost? Exhaust Question

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470301 30/10/2007 17:01 30/10/2007 17:01
M Mark_K Unregistered
Mark_K Unregistered M	So it is, I didn't know that - I just checked the Torque Italia website too. Mark

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470702 31/10/2007 00:48 31/10/2007 00:48
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,180 Havant, Hampshire. OO7 Competition Level
OO7 Competition Level Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,180 Havant, Hampshire.	I have full boost on a RS by 3150rpm. $;\)$

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470769 31/10/2007 02:12 31/10/2007 02:12
D davidub Unregistered
davidub Unregistered D	Originally Posted By: Mark_K Originally Posted By: davidub In the current weather I'm getting 1.4 bar by 3k rpm with my rsr. Personally i'd stick with the gti-r until it needs changing, then consider a gt jobbie. Exactly what I am going to do, but then which GT28 to go for!! Mark Obviously I would say an RSR! The RS will give you a little more top-end, but it will spool around 200 rpm later and is more on-off in its initial delivery. BTW, neither the RS or RSR could be described as progressive in their delivery, but I doubt you'd be dissapointed with either. Edit: although with the weak dollar it might be a good bit cheaper to import an RS. Last edited by davidub; 31/10/2007 02:21.

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470793 31/10/2007 02:43 31/10/2007 02:43
H h2ypr Unregistered
h2ypr Unregistered H	Dont be confused by getting to full boost and spool up. Spool up is when your turbo actually gets going i.e. puts you in the back of your seat. Looking at 007's graphs and joel's that would be around 3700rpm. Ross

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470811 31/10/2007 03:10 31/10/2007 03:10
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,180 Havant, Hampshire. OO7 Competition Level
OO7 Competition Level Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,180 Havant, Hampshire.	Trust me you in the back of your seat at 3150 and there is no noticeable difference at 3700. $;\)$ IMO The problem with this site (and everywhere else) is that everyone is quick to say what they have is the best, and very few people will say what was a mistake, but the only way to find out is for you to get yourself down to a few local meets and ask for a ride from different set ups . Or you could speak to someone who has driven more coupé than had hot dinners and ask there opinion. I spoke to Rog and he advised me on what to do and I'm NOT disappointed. $;\)$ I'm sure he'll be happy to talk to you Chris, drop him an e-mail on his work address. $\:\)$ Last edited by OO7; 31/10/2007 03:25. Reason: Best add IMO

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: OO7] #470836 31/10/2007 03:41 31/10/2007 03:41
J joel Unregistered
joel Unregistered J	i agree with 007 i get back in seat performance before 3700, ross you must have 2-3k of mods more than us in head work, when you compare £ for performance, i think mine & 007 are good results. i am very happy with the way my car drives, i would love to have all the headwork ross has got but just cant justify the money

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470838 31/10/2007 03:46 31/10/2007 03:46
M Matty Unregistered
Matty Unregistered M	Ah but I get full boost by 2k, and I made 550bhp on 3bar of boost. $\:P$ So I'm the best.

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: OO7] #470839 31/10/2007 03:47 31/10/2007 03:47
H h2ypr Unregistered
h2ypr Unregistered H	007 @ the problem for me is, if your asking for spool up your looking for stnd type power delivery. If your wanting big power, your looking for late 3000rpm power delivery. Your graphs show from when the torque goes nearly vertical, that its around 3700rpm it goes on song. Thats the point i would class as when your turbo is on. Maybe my "pushed back into your seat" phrase was incorrect. Ross

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470840 31/10/2007 03:49 31/10/2007 03:49
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,729 N.E Scotland mattB Club member 6
mattB Club member 6 I AM a Coop Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,729 N.E Scotland	Originally Posted By: Matty Ah but I get full boost by 2k, and I made 550bhp on 3bar of boost. $\:P$ And then I woke up...... FWIW given the decision to be made again I would have gone for a GT28R rather than my GTi-R. But I was new to coupe's back then and didn't really intend to modify it. $\:D$ Not that I'm not happy with my turbo. $;\)$ Death-rattle-tastic

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: mattB] #470842 31/10/2007 03:50 31/10/2007 03:50
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,729 N.E Scotland mattB Club member 6
mattB Club member 6 I AM a Coop Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,729 N.E Scotland	In my experience you cant really 100% judge on the road performance from the RR graph. $;\)$ Death-rattle-tastic

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470848 31/10/2007 03:53 31/10/2007 03:53
H h2ypr Unregistered
h2ypr Unregistered H	Originally Posted By: joel i agree with 007 i get back in seat performance before 3700, ross you must have 2-3k of mods more than us in head work, when you compare £ for performance, i think mine & 007 are good results. i am very happy with the way my car drives, i would love to have all the headwork ross has got but just cant justify the money Well im starting to doubt my spool up figures. Anyone who has been in my car knows it kicks in early. Im not saying you shouldnt be happy because the power to £ is good as mentioned. Ross

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470861 31/10/2007 04:06 31/10/2007 04:06
S suba Unregistered
suba Unregistered S	Originally Posted By: Mark_K I don't think any of the roller bearing turbos can be fully on boost by 3000rpm as they are bigger turbos and require longer to spool up. The only other way to reduce the spool up time is headwork, ported manifold or a bigger downpipe as far as I am aware. I believe Ross has one of the ultimate spooling combinations due to his extensive headwork etc, but I can't remember what that is now, not far off of 3000rpm if I remember correctly. I think the ultraspool is a hybrid, not a roller bearing, but it's pretty good. I think the GTiR holds better boost, the superspool spools up quicker, but doesn't hold the boost so well as the GTiR and the ultraspool spools up very quickly and holds the boost better than the superspool, but not quite as good as the GTiR(I think). The Hybrid turbos are more aggresive at coming on boost though and the GT series will be more progressive, depending on the settings of the boost controller of course too. That's my understanding anyway. Mark bang on the money Mark - as was your previous post. $\:\)$ I've had both a GTI-R and GT28R: GTI-R: 3000 rpm - thump......wayhhaaaaay all the way to the redline. GT28R: 3000 rpm - bites hard with less wheelspin......5000 rpm......smack - where did barbz slip in the second turbo then? I did change a few bits other than just the turbo - balancing, headwork, opened up the exhaust etc. Sometimes I miss the low down punch of the hybrid, but you have to remember that the roller bearing feels more progressive and it does not hold power - rather builds it all the way to the redline. I dont think it's really much slower to get going, and traction is actually easier despite the extra power. My honest opinion is go for the gtir if you are aiming for 300bhp with basic mods and no headwork, mild exhaust etc. If you are going for 350bhp then the RS is the easiest and most economic way to get there.....

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470866 31/10/2007 04:10 31/10/2007 04:10
D davidub Unregistered
davidub Unregistered D	Originally Posted By: suba Originally Posted By: Mark_K I don't think any of the roller bearing turbos can be fully on boost by 3000rpm as they are bigger turbos and require longer to spool up. The only other way to reduce the spool up time is headwork, ported manifold or a bigger downpipe as far as I am aware. I believe Ross has one of the ultimate spooling combinations due to his extensive headwork etc, but I can't remember what that is now, not far off of 3000rpm if I remember correctly. I think the ultraspool is a hybrid, not a roller bearing, but it's pretty good. I think the GTiR holds better boost, the superspool spools up quicker, but doesn't hold the boost so well as the GTiR and the ultraspool spools up very quickly and holds the boost better than the superspool, but not quite as good as the GTiR(I think). The Hybrid turbos are more aggresive at coming on boost though and the GT series will be more progressive, depending on the settings of the boost controller of course too. That's my understanding anyway. Mark bang on the money Mark - as was your previous post. $\:\)$ I've had both a GTI-R and GT28R: GTI-R: 3000 rpm - thump......wayhhaaaaay all the way to the redline. GT28R: 3000 rpm - bites hard with less wheelspin......5000 rpm......smack - where did barbz slip in the second turbo then? I did change a few bits other than just the turbo - balancing, headwork, opened up the exhaust etc. Sometimes I miss the low down punch of the hybrid, but you have to remember that the roller bearing feels more progressive and it does not hold power - rather builds it all the way to the redline. I dont think it's really much slower to get going, and traction is actually easier despite the extra power. My honest opinion is go for the gtir if you are aiming for 300bhp with basic mods and no headwork, mild exhaust etc. If you are going for 350bhp then the RS is the easiest and most economic way to get there..... This progressive behaviour doesn't hold for the RS and to a lesser extent the RSR ... there is a very big whack in the back above 3K.

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470868 31/10/2007 04:12 31/10/2007 04:12
H h2ypr Unregistered
h2ypr Unregistered H	Agree with suba regarding the bhp's and turbos to be used. Bear in mind 350bhp is the limit of the stnd internals. Ross

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470873 31/10/2007 04:17 31/10/2007 04:17
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales B Benny My life on the forum
Benny My life on the forum B Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales	[/quote] This progressive behaviour doesn't hold for the RS and to a lesser extent the RSR ... there is a very big whack in the back above 3K. [/quote] Whack in the chest more like $\:D$ Ben

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: ] #470882 31/10/2007 04:21 31/10/2007 04:21
E eldinho Unregistered
eldinho Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: suba GT28R: 3000 rpm - bites hard with less wheelspin......5000 rpm......smack - where did barbz slip in the second turbo then? Agree with this 100% with my RS. Slight difference it probably gets going closer to 3500rpm, but at 5000rpm there is an extra surge, the sounds changes and everything becomes a blur $\:D$

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: Benny] #470883 31/10/2007 04:23 31/10/2007 04:23
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,408 Essex Trappy Forum is my life
Trappy Forum is my life Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,408 Essex	Bolted onto a standard engine (no headwork) what rpm do the R, RS, and RS/R spool (wack in the back, chest, arse whatever) at and which gives the biggest top end? I keep seeing conflicting statements about this... F**** b**** thing...

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: Benny] #470887 31/10/2007 04:27 31/10/2007 04:27
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,000 Costa Del Sawley Paul_V Competition Level
Paul_V Competition Level Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,000 Costa Del Sawley	I currently run a gtir with a few other mods as well. I've been offered a gt28r,but would it make much difference. i'd be quite happy around the 300bhp mark and as for the spool up on previous post's - yes the gtir does give you one hell of a kick when it's on song. Would it be worth swapping over to a 28R?

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: Trappy] #470890 31/10/2007 04:29 31/10/2007 04:29
H h2ypr Unregistered
h2ypr Unregistered H	GT28R 3200rpm-3500rpm gt28rsr 3500rpm-3700rpm gt28rs 0.64 3700rpm-4000rpm I think. Ross

Re: GT28 v GTiR Turbos [Re: Trappy] #470891 31/10/2007 04:30 31/10/2007 04:30
D davidub Unregistered
davidub Unregistered D	Originally Posted By: Trappy Bolted onto a standard engine (no deadwork) what rpm do the R, RS, and RS/R spool (wack in the back, chest, arse whatever) at and which gives the biggest top end? I keep seeing conflicting statements about this... Kenno's RSR at Perfect Touch: http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e381/kenino/torque.jpg 007's RS at Perfect Touch: http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/007Chris/?action=view¤t=img001.jpg not sure if there's any "R" results from Perfect Touch without headwork?

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