I'm taking my car at the end of the month to a company called "Lightspeed Innovations" in Red Deer to tune. They'll fit an Autronic ECU with ignition multiplexer complete with LC1 wide band lamda probe.

My engine is a 2.4 with CP Racing Pistons, Cummingham Rods, stage 4 Torque Italia head and a GT3071R-WG turbo amongst other things.

They are extremely knowlegable about the Autronic but the Coupe is new to them.

What I need to know is what advice you can give me to help them tune the car. They are bright people but I thought we have a wealth of information from years of tuning that can help them save time and avoid any problems.

For example what AFR does the coupe work best with (is it unique to the coupe) and at what engine speeds, what maximum rev limit is safe, what EGT should I watch out for, what ignition advance works well.

I'm taking an extra set of spark plugs, one warmer, one cooler just in case. NGK Iridium. Are those considered okay. It's all I can find here. You'd be amazed how much trouble it is even finding a set of spark plugs for the Coupe here. I had to decode the model numbers from several manufacturers to get a match.

I'm also taking a spare set of pants for the first time they run the engine up in anger. Hopefully she holds together after all my work.

The company is a 1.5 hour drive from Calgary and I'll be taking the Coupe there on a trailer towed by my Jeep. The roads are covered in rocks now it's winter and I don't want the windscreen cracked or paint chipped.

Thanks in advance

John

Have they asked for advice, I would tell them the std max rpm, then inform them what rods it has now. Inform them it has hydraulic followers and a cast flywheel. Maybe they'd like to know the std firing order and trigger wheel pattern if its std. Compression ratio, fuel pump specs, fuel pressure, injector size, maybe some cam data to estimate the response. When was the gear box oil changed?

Personally I'd want to know about them, how will they run it in (if reqd), monitor detonation, log temperatures. Infact i'd want them to watch temps like hawk. Will the monitor EGT. How long will they let it cool between runs, will it be mapped on comparitive runs or at steady rpm points. Got decent oil presure gauge. I dont think there's an AFR which will work best with a coupe, its a turbo charged engine, and it would be nice to see the inlet temp and decide on a safe AFR, but they would have dealt with charged engine plenty so will be looking for a certain number. I take it they'll have it for a couple of days??

Personally I'd give Phil Lanes a call at G&G motosport for his input.

rich

Thanks Rich,

I have printed out the Coupe Workshop manual section on the engine with the firing order, phase sensor angle information etc etc.

I'll be having time off work to watch them like a hawk. They like the fact I've done the work myself and are an enthusiast so hopefully they won't mind me doing this.

I think the EGT is the killer to watch out for, from what I've read, 4 and 5 primarys are short so heat up quickly. I might remove the heat shield so they can get a proper reading. It's so tight in there I think I need to remove the fans to do this!

They have a Mustang dyno I think, which they say is very good. They can hold the car at any speed and load, so for example the engine can be flat out but still only travelling at 50 mph.

They are extremely good electricians so wiring what they have up shouldn't be a problem. They are also experts with the Apexi boost controller although the Autronic can control the boost as well.

John

They can get an indication certainly of temperature differences with an infra red thermometer like the hand held snap on one even if they dont get a true EGT reading, plus it can be done from a distance as long the bit in question can be seen.

Hopefully they'll map a very low boost high rpm map first, see if it holds together!!

Rich

Didn't Owen Developments map a few other 2.4s? Might be worth chancing your arm and giving them a call?

Except he's in Canada

What phones don't work over there?

Nah they don't. We have to attach a message to a Polar Bear and hope for the best at this time of year

You could do a lot worse than offer barbz a few beer tokens for him to spend an hour on the phone with them

here here........a great idea

At least I won't need to worry about high ambient temperatures next week.

7 Day Forecast

John

On the AFR I would go rich - 11.2- 11.3:1 seems to work well on the internally gated 2.4s. What sort of fuel do you get over there?

If there's any specific info you need then let me know. I would suggest fitting an aftermarket temp sensor as the std one reacts very slowly to temp changes and does seem to get heat-soaked (no bad thing froma safety perspective).
There are two different angles for trigger depending on how your crank trigger wheel is fitted . The std ecu figures it out each time it starts which is why the engine turns over once before firing - we've had this discussion before on the forum.
3071R may surge in 4th and 5th if it isn't ported. Make sure they take a look and give you a more gentle spoolup in those gears if that does happen. Or if they think they can cure it let them port it or fit an anti-surge compressor cover.
Take some spare coil packs if you have them

The best place to put det cans is on the inlet manifold. There is a flat bit there (it think between 3 and 4) I have drilled and tapped to accept a std Bosch knock sensor. Alternatively they can use the mounting point where the plastic inlet tube before the throttle sits. This is harder to listen from but still good enough. Tell them not to bother trying the std positions for knock sensors as it is v difficult to hear from there.

My variator is set to go off at around 4000rpm to give you an idea. Mine goes off dependent on rpm and boost threshold rather than the std rpm and throttle angle. I think with your turbo it might be better to go off even earlier than that.

Make sure they have plenty of time to sort out the cold start idle and cold compensations (like do it for a few days). It is not your easiest car to get right apparently.

If you have an EGT display at 21c ambient you will not want more than about 900C. If you have a sensor ask them to wire it in as a safety measure - I have mine wired in to back off the advance and boost if it gets close to 1000c. It is ok for it to go over briefly but for safety it isn't really advisable

The 20VT has very short exhaust ports compared to the 16VT or indeed many/most other turbo cars - they need to know this as this is why it is easier to get reversion and end up with a melted piston or melted valves. This is one bit of car specific info that makes a big difference to how you would map it - really they need to build in more safety than they would on your average Jap car for instance. If you still have OE in/ex valves they are relatively slightly small compared to your average capacity to valve size for a turbocharged engine. This is by design for a number of reasons power not being one of them.
I would personally have the ECU control your boost rather than a boost controller especially if they can build in safety back-offs like I have (on lambda and EGT)

Launch control works ok on the std manifold but tell them to be gentle - it hardly needs any retard to get half a bar of boost.

In terms of boost map your engine should be able to handle a progressive ramp to 1.8 bar but I would make sure it is dropping by 5000rpm on the 2.4s as they create a LOT more backpressure than std due to the extra capacity. You will probably make most power somewhere between 1.2-1.5 bar boost - no more than that will be required or beneficial. Make sure they don't arbitrarily give you tonnes of boost- the engine doesn't need it because it is much more efficient than most turbo engines (think cars like Mitsubishi Evos, Scoobies etc. which they're more likely to see regularly).

In terms of rev limit don't go above 8000rpm (no one else has). If you reset your hydraulic lifters and then used running in oil they might still contain that so then go lower to about 7600rpm. What will happen above 8000rpm is more likely to be valve bounce more than a locked out lifter. Really your boost should be going south after 7500rpm

Wow thanks John that's some fantastic information.

Barbz says I have the same head as you so it already has the bigger values.

I made a mistake. The turbo is a GT3076R-WG not the GT3071R-WG.

Taken from the ATP website:

The "GT3076R-WG" packs the 500HP capable, quick spooling 52 trim 76mm compressor found in the popular GT3037 with the high flowing 90 trim turbine wheel found in the bigger GT3071R-WG, making it the highest flowing turbo available in the internal wastegated configuration. Ideal higher power upgrade for GT28RS/GT2871R/GT3071R-WG setups looking for a lot more power. Comes with T25 style inlet flange.

Turbine
-Wheel: 56.5mm w/ 90 trim
-Housing: .64 or .86 a/r
-Internally Wastegated (No Actuator)
-Maps: Not Available

Compressor
-Wheel: 76mm w/ 52 trim
-Housing: Various a/r
-Inlet: Various
-Maps: Not Available


John

what I'm running is a 3076R with a bigger compressor wheel (like a 3576R if you like). It won't make 500BHP because of the backpressure issues (but it would if you had an external wastegate) but it should make somewhere between 410-450BHP I would guess (assuming 98RON or better). The turbo is capable of more but the restriction of the internal wastegate puts pay to that.

I'll see what I get with this set up for this season then investigate external wastegated turbos next winter. It would be nice to be able to drive it this summer!!

John

John - interesting that ATP quote the 3076 as an "...ideal power upgrade..." to a GT2871.

is it a viable proposition for a 2-litre car?

I'm considering my options for more power, and my simple way of looking at things suggests that a slight increase in turbo size, but with a decrease in compressor wheel trim (I'm running 76 trim) might make for more power with no loss in spoolup times

I'm going to a 3076, so make of that what you will

That 400bhp is not enough

My God it's cold here today. A snow storm came in over the weekend. It's currently -33 or -48 with the wind chill. There is a huge snow drift in front of my garage and the trailer I'm supposed to be picking up to put the Coupe on isn't in Calgary and nobody is answering the phone.

Great

John

On Monday I took my car to Lightspeed Innovations in Red Deerabout 150 km North of Calgary. I put the Coupe on the top of a U-Haul car transporter and towed it using the Jeep. Went all the back roads as I didn't want to go 80 km/hr on the motorway where everyone else is doing 110 km/hr. The Jeep was plenty powerful enough to tow the trailer faster but I didn't want to go any faster and the recommended towing speed was 45 mph.

Lightspeed are Autronic and Apexi dealers. They have a fancy new Dynapack rolling road. The units bolt directly to the wheel hubs. No slip and no fear of the car shooting off the rollers. The system has some useful features such as being able to hold the engine at a certain rpm.

They spent Tuesday and Wednesday working on the patch loom from the Autronic ECU to the Coupe loom connector. I bought a Coupe ECU socket so their patch loom can simply plug into the Coupe Loom. They also ran a new power line as they've had problems before. They ran a manifold pressure hose as the Autronic has a built in MAP sensor. They also installed a new Innovate LC1 wideband lamda.

Today they were hoping to get it running using a base map but they are having problems with the cam position sensor. They are not getting a signal from it. The sensor is okay as is the Coupe loom as the car was running when I unloaded it off the trailer. Waiting to hear back from them.

John

Had an update from Lightspeed. They are getting a signal from the cam position sensor. However the cam position sensor and rpm sensor are interfearing with one another and introducing noise in the signals. They think it's the Coupe loom but I'm not convinced. Anyway it's on their time to fix the problem.

I had a shock today when they charged be $3000 for the 24 hours of labour it's taken them to wire everything up and fit the new Lamda probe. These stand alone units are not cheap!!

John

$3000 Keep the updates coming!

Canadian dollars yeh so roughly £1500? I expect they will use the Autotune function in the Autronics which can get a car running to near perfect AFR within 20 minutes!!

I assume you mean a 3082R?

Im very interested to hear how this turns out Tipoboy!

From what ive read, I dont think the 3076R WG would be great for a 2L. This turbo is an ideal upgrade if you must retain the internal wastegate, rather than an ideal upgrade for power.

The GT30 WG turbos are quite different to the "true" GT30's. The hot size is not a true 60mm GT30, its really still a GT28, modified for higher flow. Hence why they refer to it as the GT28xxR upgrade etc. From what ive read these are a big compromise, A GT30xxR with an external WG is a far better package.

that's not actually true. I can bolt an internal wastegate turbine housing on my turbo to make it internally gated (and have done the reverse). The GT2876R is the one with a GT28 turbine wheel.

Yes, they'll use the LC1 wideband lamda. This looks a very good probe with calibration buttons. I might in the future link it to their display unit and do away with the AEM one I currently have. They think it'll be about 2 hours maximum on the rollers. They'll keep it for a week afterwards to check cold running etc.

It is true, look at the specifications for all the turbos.

GT30WG turbos have a different turbine to a GT30 and a GT28. Its somewhere in the middle. There are actually 2 different turbine trim options too.

You can buy a non-WG housing for a GT30WG turbo but it will be different to a GT30.

GT28 53mm
GT30WG 56.5mm
GT30 60mm

Ok I kind of agree but disagree - I see your point and I apologise if I was being so obscure with my answer I actually know all about what you're getting at

The 56.5mm turbine wheel is off a GT3071R internally wastegated turbo not a GT3076R. GT3076R is not officially an internally gated turbo (look at the garrett catalogue for ref) - or at least wasn't historically - and so some turbo builders use/used a true GT30 turbine wheel but then problem is that it is extremely close to the wastegate so there is a tendancy for the housing to crack there. Therefore most turbo builders now build it with a 3071R turbine wheel.
So it depends where you get it from and whether they build it out of parts or not.
They used to always machine out the turbine housing but now it is much cheaper to buy the GT3071R pre-machined

Latest news is they have found the source of the interfearance. The sensor routing was running too close to the starter motor and when then engine was being cranked it induced a voltage in the sensor wires.

The next problem is that the coil packs don't have an igniter. The Coupe ECU contains this. I have two choices, we could fit an igniter module to the Autronic which would be neater but they know of issues with the coil packs failing and I've heard several Coupe owners complain about the same. Therefore the best approach is to externally fit a set of MSD blaster coil packs.

John