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turbo upgrade
#536755
06/02/2008 07:16
06/02/2008 07:16
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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What you guys reckon i should get?
RSR, RS 0.64? RSR with a bigger trim?
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#536863
06/02/2008 17:22
06/02/2008 17:22
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Go for an RS - 0.64.....
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: Flea]
#536864
06/02/2008 17:24
06/02/2008 17:24
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Modify to an RSR and you'll be good for another 20bhp+ without too much sacrifice What about an RSR with 63 trim? Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#536913
06/02/2008 18:10
06/02/2008 18:10
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Akeme
Unregistered
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As suba said. It feels good
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537030
06/02/2008 21:17
06/02/2008 21:17
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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To avoid starting another thread, would a crap induction kit, stop power at the top end?
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#537117
06/02/2008 23:26
06/02/2008 23:26
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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I was considering an RS, what makes the RSR much better?
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537119
06/02/2008 23:27
06/02/2008 23:27
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Better spool up. If you are into that kind of thing, which i get the impression Ross is
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537122
06/02/2008 23:30
06/02/2008 23:30
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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I would rather get the torque surge as low down the rev range as possible, but I dont mind if it takes a second to spool up when you suddenly floor it, if that makes sense...
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#537127
06/02/2008 23:35
06/02/2008 23:35
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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which RS cars have you driven John?
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537160
07/02/2008 00:32
07/02/2008 00:32
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Akeme
Unregistered
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I find my RS is very progressive, by the time you hit peak power traction issues have dissapeared. The RS is good for slow in fast out on track as well, much less frantic wheelspinning exits
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: paul]
#537170
07/02/2008 00:46
07/02/2008 00:46
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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ive got an RSR thats covered 3k miles coming up forsale soon with all the fittings and a 3" downpipe
Last edited by yellow_coop; 07/02/2008 00:47.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537211
07/02/2008 01:27
07/02/2008 01:27
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davidub
Unregistered
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davidub
Unregistered
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Is your turbo on the way out? If not, leave the fccukin' thing alone!
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537235
07/02/2008 01:59
07/02/2008 01:59
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Thanks for the advice so far.
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537237
07/02/2008 02:00
07/02/2008 02:00
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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That's what I'll be doing until I go forged!
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537252
07/02/2008 02:16
07/02/2008 02:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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which RS cars have you driven John? Drove Barbz car with an RS and a one of his customers cars when I was down there. Also driven both the GT28RSR and the GT28R on headwork. The headwork does make the RS less on/off but I think it is a very poor match for the engine. The whole idea of getting a upgraded turbois to match the engines characteristics and I believe the RS would also suit a longer stroke engine better (like the 16VT) than the 20VT engine.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: Gaz]
#537281
07/02/2008 02:46
07/02/2008 02:46
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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What did you think of the R with headwork John?
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: Gaz]
#537340
07/02/2008 03:50
07/02/2008 03:50
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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Wheres the best place to get a RSR then? i think the only way to get an RSR now, is to speak to turbo dynamics or to buy and "R" and then get an "RS" compressor wheel fitted by turbo dynamics or speak to me about the one im selling soon
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537397
07/02/2008 05:20
07/02/2008 05:20
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537475
07/02/2008 14:24
07/02/2008 14:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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What did you think of the R with headwork John?
Ross Yeah very good. I drove Sheikhs car which was 344BHP at relatively low boost as far as I rememeber. I think Barbz will still sell you an RSR - email him at torqueitalia@yahoo.co.uk
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: paul]
#537777
07/02/2008 22:56
07/02/2008 22:56
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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I think the 28R with headwork is terrible.....
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537831
08/02/2008 00:20
08/02/2008 00:20
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Akeme
Unregistered
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I agree
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#537901
08/02/2008 02:17
08/02/2008 02:17
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 179 South East London
ben20vt
On a journey
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On a journey
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 179
South East London
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Ross.....you are losing it. You have a great car, with plenty of power...why not save that cash and buy a track day toy instead? (my votes with an RSR if you must)
313bhp...GT28R, Pro-Alloy FMIC & SIP, Perfect touch Live Map, Powerfiat Exhaust, Eibach springs.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: cowboy]
#537993
08/02/2008 04:31
08/02/2008 04:31
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Balanced rods and pistons. Its my only limitation.
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538128
08/02/2008 15:24
08/02/2008 15:24
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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pretty big limitation though, you aren't all that far off what is safe with standard internals, and especialy with the headwork moving to an RSR or RS might not be the greatest idea.
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#538145
08/02/2008 15:55
08/02/2008 15:55
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576 Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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pretty big limitation though, you aren't all that far off what is safe with standard internals, and especialy with the headwork moving to an RSR or RS might not be the greatest idea. I kinda thought that too I didn`t want to say anything just incase Ross popped round and nicked my rods and pistons
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: paul]
#538154
08/02/2008 16:15
08/02/2008 16:15
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Hmmm. I think i'll just more boost!! Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538190
08/02/2008 16:49
08/02/2008 16:49
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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Hmmm. I think i'll just more boost!! Ross <retro batman> KAPOOOOW! BANG! ZAP! </retro batman>
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JimO]
#538207
08/02/2008 17:05
08/02/2008 17:05
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576 Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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then we will have 20 threads, asking, why it happened,what caused it,why me,how do I fix it ........................................................................................................................................................................ thats why we luv him !!
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: paul]
#538214
08/02/2008 17:08
08/02/2008 17:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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I think you should focus on a modification that will add new functionality to your car rather than changing something you already have/ Ever thought of one of these ?
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#538232
08/02/2008 17:19
08/02/2008 17:19
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Dont drink coffee!! Imagine what i would be like if i did??? But in all seriousness, there is nothing i can do, because of the internals?? Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538233
08/02/2008 17:22
08/02/2008 17:22
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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start saving for the forged bits
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538234
08/02/2008 17:23
08/02/2008 17:23
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538312
08/02/2008 18:42
08/02/2008 18:42
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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Dont drink coffee!! Imagine what i would be like if i did??? But in all seriousness, there is nothing i can do, because of the internals?? Ross tea machine?
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: Flea]
#538480
08/02/2008 22:45
08/02/2008 22:45
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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...... and have the cash waiting for a re-build just in case it's needed....
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538484
08/02/2008 22:50
08/02/2008 22:50
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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...... and have the cash waiting for a re-build just in case it's needed.... Thanks Si. Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538488
08/02/2008 22:58
08/02/2008 22:58
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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agree with suba on this, its much nicer the way he is going about it by buying all the parts he needs/wants and having a rebuild when it suits him! the other way is what happened to me! car dies, wait for the engine to be stripped down before you even know whats wrong with it, which was the pistons! spend weeks trying to find a good deal on pistons/rods! then having to send samples away (including US) and having them to design or confirm they are the correct ones! then having to wait 6-7 weeks for the parts to be made and delivered! the car broke down mid sept, and it was beginning of Jan before the cylinder block could get bored out and get the ball rolling! also having to pay out £2500 within only a few months over the christmas period put quite a strain on my finances! but sure it will all be worth it
Last edited by eldinho; 09/02/2008 04:55. Reason: cylinder block instead of head, doh!
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538680
09/02/2008 04:28
09/02/2008 04:28
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Seriously Ross - I've thought about squeezing another 20 bhp out of my setup with cams or a turbo change.....but I know that my car is running perfectly right now, as i've pushed it hard etc. It's just not worth the risk IMO, if it does let go you'll end up in tears if you can't afford to rebuild it straight away. I've got all the bits for a big power built and for going forged ready and waiting apart from a turbo....when I go for more I'll go there in one one go. I also wont be going for more grunt until I'm satisfied the handling is as good as it can possibly be, which is coming along nicely at the moment.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538809
09/02/2008 17:12
09/02/2008 17:12
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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Yeah it is always better to plan the bits in advance so that you don't have to take your car off the road for as long as well. I'm building someones engine up at the moment who has invested the time in getting all the bits together in advance in effect like forged pistons, rods and tubular manifold etc. Although he did take his car off the road to drop the engine it probably wasn't necessary. There are lessons to be learnt from this as his block was too worn to take 82mm pistons it needed an overbore so you can't even always assume that you can fit them in situ.
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#538845
09/02/2008 17:51
09/02/2008 17:51
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owl10
Unregistered
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owl10
Unregistered
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so, in your advice john, if planning a rebuild would it be worth getting 82.5mm pistons and having a rebore in the plan from the start???
just curious
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#538932
09/02/2008 22:09
09/02/2008 22:09
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158 Near Reading
JohnS
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,158
Near Reading
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Personally I would go 83mm if I was overboring. Usually blocks are ok to drop forged pistons straight into but it isn't always the case so it is a lottery really. If you are planning a forged build I would do it as a seperate project and then swap engines. That also then leaves you with a complete working engine worth something to sell rather than a pile of bits most people won't want/
Former low boost hero - 616BHP@1.5 bar. 2.4 20VT RIP
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: JohnS]
#544738
19/02/2008 03:05
19/02/2008 03:05
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Whats the main danger to the internals at over 350bhp? Heat? Wouldnt proper fuelling be able to combat it?
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544744
19/02/2008 03:08
19/02/2008 03:08
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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you're dying for a bigger turbo aren't you ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544745
19/02/2008 03:08
19/02/2008 03:08
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Bending rods, rod bolts shearing, ringlands breaking.. blah blah blah..
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544748
19/02/2008 03:10
19/02/2008 03:10
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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thing is if a rod goes, it could be bye bye engine
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544751
19/02/2008 03:15
19/02/2008 03:15
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Bending rods, rod bolts shearing, ringlands breaking.. blah blah blah.. Stnd rods are good for 340lb/ft as Nigel has shown. Ringlands.... are they forged when u go to forged?? Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544754
19/02/2008 03:20
19/02/2008 03:20
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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did Nigel not take his torque down to 320 to be on the safe side?
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544769
19/02/2008 03:33
19/02/2008 03:33
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Stnd rods are good for 340lb/ft as Nigel has shown.
Ringlands.... are they forged when u go to forged??
Ross Nigels rods are good for 340ft/lbs, but not all rods are the same. Iain unfortunately had rods that broke and blew a big hole in the block. He was/is running an RSR. Forged pistons are stronger by the nature of the manufacturing process which means the ringlands will take more pressure before they break.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544777
19/02/2008 03:49
19/02/2008 03:49
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Mines are the same as nigel, as they are balanced and from barbz aswell.
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544852
19/02/2008 05:10
19/02/2008 05:10
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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What Kenno meant, that you can never tell if all std rods are the same
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: Begbie]
#544889
19/02/2008 05:46
19/02/2008 05:46
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Akeme
Unregistered
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Im with suba on this, spending more money on a turbo thats going to be restricted by the engine internals and that would gain you only 15-20hp is not good £ per HP value. Handling and brakes are far higher up on my todo list, would much rather spend 2k on a big brake conversion than getting any more HP and anyway, if you wanna compete properly in 1/4 mile events, go get a scooby
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#544894
19/02/2008 05:57
19/02/2008 05:57
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Lol@akeme. Im buying handling mods aswell at the moment. Many irons in different fires Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545245
19/02/2008 20:59
19/02/2008 20:59
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the_mule
Unregistered
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the_mule
Unregistered
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Handling and brakes are far higher up on my todo list, would much rather spend 2k on a big brake conversion than getting any more HP and anyway, if you wanna compete properly in 1/4 mile events, go get a scooby and if you want to win go get a sky line/supra although whats that got to do with anything lol
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545586
20/02/2008 05:49
20/02/2008 05:49
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Ross - the torque and bhp rating of the standard internals is a guide only, and with the variances between rolling roads taken into account you are never sure. Sure Flea and Doctorfrag have run over 350 bhp on the standard internals, but they both ran aquamist..... I know you want someone to say that your engine will be fine if you upgrade to a bigger turbo, but maybe it will - maybe it wont.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545590
20/02/2008 05:52
20/02/2008 05:52
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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don't forget one of those cars is now having a rebuild due to the pistons not being up to it
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545595
20/02/2008 05:55
20/02/2008 05:55
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Ross - the torque and bhp rating of the standard internals is a guide only, and with the variances between rolling roads taken into account you are never sure. Sure Flea and Doctorfrag have run over 350 bhp on the standard internals, but they both ran aquamist..... I know you want someone to say that your engine will be fine if you upgrade to a bigger turbo, but maybe it will - maybe it wont. Thanks Si. Its a gamble i know. I even called Barbz today and spoke to him. He's doing well and gives his regards to everyone. He basically said there is no way to tell aswell. He said that he's seen engines running 310lb/ft and run well for ages but there is others that have let go. Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545596
20/02/2008 05:56
20/02/2008 05:56
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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don't forget one of those cars is now having a rebuild due to the pistons not being up to it Yeah that is in my mind aswell. Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545641
20/02/2008 13:59
20/02/2008 13:59
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ryangt
Unregistered
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ryangt
Unregistered
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go for it h2ypr it gives u a good resaon to do a rebuild when the engine blows .
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545650
20/02/2008 14:20
20/02/2008 14:20
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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but what if a rod goes and takes out more than just a rod? It will add quite a bit more to the already large bill!
what is your final target power figure? if you are going to go for a GT2871R then you will obviously push the car to around 400bhp! so then the standard internals almost certainly won't be up to it! so you might aswell get the internals done before the turbo change! It's not as if your car is a slouch in the meantime!
but if you are going for RS/RSR then maybe you might get away with it! like suba says, you might not!
trust me on this, it isn't nice for something to go and have a massive bill staring you in the face with no prior notice and also to have the car off the road for such a long time!
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545652
20/02/2008 14:38
20/02/2008 14:38
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Squid
Unregistered
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Squid
Unregistered
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I totally agree with you Mark. My car was running around 350BHP and eventually one of the pistons fell apart. I remember talking to DoctorFrag after he sold his car and we were saying that my car was currently the most powerful car with sdtandard internals.... And sure enough soon after it let go! If you get a GT28RS, make sure you don't map it agressively, and I would not go for more than 300bhp. However, after my rebuild I should have a 450+bhp coupe
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#545967
20/02/2008 19:35
20/02/2008 19:35
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Thanks for the advice guys.
I think I'm just gonna save for forged and then change it all at the same time.
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#558549
08/03/2008 20:16
08/03/2008 20:16
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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h2ypr
Unregistered
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Question.
RSR inlet is 3"?
Now i have a TI SIP. Is this 3"? Presumably the gt28r is a smaller inlet. Did the TI SIP come with a reducer hose?
Ross
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#558687
09/03/2008 00:34
09/03/2008 00:34
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chr77176
Unregistered
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chr77176
Unregistered
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hello,
In France, lot20, regt20 and others french guys are running GT28 R or RS since 1 or 2 years with no problems... at 1,4 1,5 bar boost>>> (300 to 328 cvx on RR). (and permanent runs on Friday and saturday)
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#558690
09/03/2008 00:38
09/03/2008 00:38
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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yellow_coop
Unregistered
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well an RSR is an R with an RS compressor wheel so why would the inlet be any different to that of an R?
*EDIT*
Weird i dont think mine had a 3" inlet...
Last edited by yellow_coop; 09/03/2008 19:43.
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#558952
09/03/2008 14:25
09/03/2008 14:25
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Kenno
Unregistered
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Yes. Now i have a TI SIP. Is this 3"? Shouldn't be. Sell it and get a non tapered SIP from ProAlloy
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Re: turbo upgrade
[Re: ]
#559063
09/03/2008 17:46
09/03/2008 17:46
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576 Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,576
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
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I`ve got a rsr with a tapered TI sip,just get shot of the `humped hose` that fits the r and get a hose that goes from 2 1/2" (think thats the sip size) to 3 "..........I was unsure if thsi would cause a restriction,but when i asked Barbz,he told me this is what Marcus ran ,think he got about 380 bhp think I got mine from Rallye Design, just checked mine internal sizes 61mm to 79mm my advice for what it`s worth, go for forged internals,it will save you money in the long run,and means you can stop worrying about it going BANG (within reason)and concentrate on making it going faster
Last edited by paul; 09/03/2008 18:18. Reason: sizes
was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not
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