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What can i hold safely at the top #609443
10/05/2008 20:11
10/05/2008 20:11
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Over the last few weeks i have managed to iron out a few niggles with the coupe
and sort out some boost prob's wink

So this morning i booked the coupe in to be RR'd at powerstation to see what it does

and hopefully give me piece of mind rolleyes

So i was woundering what boost is safe to hold at the redline

At the moment i am runing 1.35bar mid and it tails off to 1.2 top
with this my afr is 11.3-11.8 and up top just befor 7k its 12.1

Full spec,

GT28rs 64/ar
3'sip
2.7' 5-stud decat exhaust
pa fmic
walbro+live feed
profec b
TI chip
standard head+bottom end

Any advice greatly appricaited

Ben




Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Benny] #610724
13/05/2008 02:03
13/05/2008 02:03
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Well Ben i think you should keep it down to 1.1bar at the redline crazy

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Benny] #610828
13/05/2008 03:53
13/05/2008 03:53

E
eldinho
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eldinho
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I'd go for 1.1

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #610869
13/05/2008 05:01
13/05/2008 05:01

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MiniPit
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1.1 at the redline! confused That's my dream!!!

I can't do it with my T28... i've got 1.4 bar at 4000 rpm, 1.1 bar at 5000 and only 0.8 at the redline... crazy

Need an hybrid? rolleyes

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #610928
13/05/2008 14:08
13/05/2008 14:08
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Thanks eldinho,

For what you would gain by runing 0.1 bar extra
at the top wouldnt be too noticeable and 1.1 is safer smile

I'm not concerned with top end power, just going to get the fuelling double checked tongue


and if it makes resonable power its a bouns wink

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Benny] #610932
13/05/2008 14:15
13/05/2008 14:15
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,386
Staffordshire
Nigel Offline
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I don't see why he needs to keep to 1.1 bar

He has:

An efficient turbo
A superb FMIC
No V-Band
a bigger downpipe
good fuel pump
good boost control

There are three main things that kill cars running high boost at the top end:

Exhaust gas temps
charge temps
bad fuelling

Two are sorted, just fuelling to worry about

With all of that, I would say 1.2 bar is easily do-able, AS LONG as the fuelling is OK (there's no reason it shouldn't be)

There's only one way to be sure though, and thats to have it properly checked by a good tuning shop on a good rolling road (PowerStation will be great)

FWIW, I don't think a 0.64AR GT28RS will give much more than 1.1 - 1.2 bar at the redline anyway

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Nigel] #610936
13/05/2008 14:21
13/05/2008 14:21
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Thanks Nigel,

Would there be much gain in bhp by runing 1.2 rather than 1.1

Oor forgot to add, suprised no one mentioned it laugh
also got a helix organic clucth rolleyes

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Nigel] #610939
13/05/2008 14:24
13/05/2008 14:24

E
eldinho
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eldinho
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my car was running around 1.25bar at redline (on a 0.64) with WI, mapped, EGT gauge to keep an eye on things and god knows howmany RR's to check the fuelling. but the pistons still went. obviously the power was slightly higher but depends how much safety you want.

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #610945
13/05/2008 14:33
13/05/2008 14:33

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eldinho
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eldinho
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why not whilst on the RR try both boost levels and see if the gains are worth the risk?

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #610948
13/05/2008 14:34
13/05/2008 14:34
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Well safty is top of the list

So 1.1 top is the better option

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #610949
13/05/2008 14:38
13/05/2008 14:38
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Well i could store it on the controller and see how the fuelling is at 1.1

and if im happy and the RR operater

is happy to run it at 1.2

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Benny] #611004
13/05/2008 15:56
13/05/2008 15:56

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h2ypr
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Personally i would stick to 1.1.

What bhp are you hoping for from the setup?

Ross

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611062
13/05/2008 18:01
13/05/2008 18:01
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Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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somthing over 300bhp/290lbs

really i just want to be doublely shaw of the fuelling wink

Ben

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611706
14/05/2008 15:56
14/05/2008 15:56

S
suba
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suba
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Originally Posted by MiniPit
1.1 at the redline! confused That's my dream!!!

I can't do it with my T28... i've got 1.4 bar at 4000 rpm, 1.1 bar at 5000 and only 0.8 at the redline... crazy

Need an hybrid? rolleyes


If you are on the original turbo then that's your lot - and the 1.4 midrange wont be gaining you anything either as the turbo is well past efficiency.

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611722
14/05/2008 16:29
14/05/2008 16:29
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
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Suba do you have a compressor map of the original turbo?


Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Freddan72] #611734
14/05/2008 16:41
14/05/2008 16:41

J
JohnS
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JohnS
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turbobygarrett.com

As long as the top is still 7000rpm not 7300rpm or whatever people are also using.

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: Freddan72] #611767
14/05/2008 17:16
14/05/2008 17:16

S
suba
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suba
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No - but I did a lot of testing when I was still running it with rolling road figures to back up my claim that going over 1.2 bar gains nothing an will wear out the turbo quickly + create heat issues.

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611776
14/05/2008 17:26
14/05/2008 17:26

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JohnS
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JohnS
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Just as a side, part of the reason why it will not hold say 2 bar at the redline is because of the backpressure building up and the inability of the engine to expel gasses fast enough. Therefore even if the unit can physically hold more you might not want it to.

The 20VT doesn't need high boost to make power as has been proven time and time again, so don't look at the high boost heroes as the reason they have to run more boost is because their setup isn't as efficient in the first place.

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611793
14/05/2008 17:52
14/05/2008 17:52

J
JohnS
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JohnS
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Quote
What can i hold safely at the top


BTW I can hold a starbucks venti and a packet of crisps at the top but anything more than that and I'll either spill something or crash laugh

Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #611870
14/05/2008 19:21
14/05/2008 19:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,194
Göteborg, Sweden
Freddan72 Offline
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Originally Posted by JohnS
turbobygarrett.com

As long as the top is still 7000rpm not 7300rpm or whatever people are also using.
I looked at the garrett site but can´t find map for tb28 crazy . Help me!!!! love


Coupé Fiat 20V Turbo Plus 1999, T19 Mitsubishi turbo
https://youtu.be/O9qrLj3Ap00 Now FCP Stage3!
Re: What can i hold safely at the top [Re: ] #612128
15/05/2008 01:57
15/05/2008 01:57
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Posts: 1,671
Newport,south wales
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Benny Offline OP
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Anyhoo laugh

i think 1.1bar will be fine wink

Ben


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