In what way? I mean a GTR is a better car, as in it's a better car. Faster in a straight line and faster on a track. In fact, a Cayman doesn't even feature. A GTR is even better than a 911 turbo...

Looks and styling are a matter of opinion.

Can you buy an Elise for £50K? It's not in the same territory. An Elise with mods taking it up to a total value of £50K would be very interesting and very fast, but corporate market collaborations would never let that happen.

Alternatively you could just say that all opinion is subjective, fluid and a result of environment, in which case in our world every single opinion is misguided...



No. I bought a Coop FFS! ... and I have been personally upping it's street cred ever since. It's been fun.

This is where street cred needs defining. What is it? Certainly the likes of Clarkson has zero idea what street cred is, as he lost touch with 'the street' the moment he wedged his head up his own rse. And he reckons all german cars are the nuts and all jap cars are crap, from what I've seen, especially of late.

If a new Liner has more 'street cred' than a new 911, then I should imagine vfm, tunability, badge sacrificed for peformance, superficialities ignored, a car sold *purely* on is capabilities, and perhaps one that doesn't attract wallet-lovers and only petrol heads? It's like the cool wall, as soon as just one t0sser buys a cool car, it becomes uncool. The street cred principle is the same, I'd say - that one bad nut tarnishes all. Something that would be gazed on because how well it does what it does, not what it means just to own one, who owns one or how it looks.



I'd only think of image where others' respect matters. Nearly all humans are not worthy of my respect (it's that actions thing, mundaneness, stupidity, sheeple mentality etc. human-animals verses human-sentient), so why would I be worried about gaining theirs? We've fuccked the world we live on. I don't even respect myself.

I'd love respect from the likes of Dawkins, Kaku, or Hawkins. Alas… I don't think I'll manage that.

It's a deep-seated nihilistic erradicate humanity and let spiders inherit the Earth hate-thing.



Why would a human who has no respect for humans be remotely worried about losing a 'race' to another human? I'd only worry about that in equal machinery. Until then it's just fun.

The way I see it is, if you're in inferior machinery, the person cannot be beaten. Only the person in the superior machinery can be beaten. Listen to an F1 driver for the pinacle that; FA really didn't mind so much being lapped by LH at Silverstone last week, but he absolutely hated even being out-qualified by him by a couple of 10ths at the end of last year...

I just love to see someone abuse our own creations, not those that were already here when we arrived.



I think the vermin disease has already infected you.

I'm not looking to win, I'm looking to have fun, preferably at some rich t0ssers expense. It's a rebellion against undue classism. It implies I'm not worthy, only because I don't buy into it. The rich-mundanes think they are worthy because they do buy into it. Then they meet me...

I am the destroyer of [sh!t] worlds!

If I cared about winning, I'd have a bike and leathers with a giant "Capitalism is organised crime... and you've been had you sucker!" painted on the back. Hmm… now there's a whole new level of insult to hurl...



No it was on a straight. Dead straight.



To the car, but not to the person themselves. It's marginal though. Cars are always built to classist limitations and not to be as good as they can be. The only car I have true respect for is an F1 car - for one reason: it's what you get when no expense is spared.



It's because it's insulting. Any convo would be cool though. I must've missed the part where I said he should be driving my Coop. But he probably should, to see if he can see the £80K difference. Mind you £80K is probably nothing to them. It would probably be like comparing a Mars bar to a Twix, all appreciation for the creation is lost.

Whatever he wants. His life certainly, in part, revolves around ignoring or stepping on people, not because they are not as good as him or clever or nice, but because they don't earn as much and mostly that simple because of where and when they were born. Not even their genes are worthy of disdain. But that world doesn't work with me around...

I think other people should join in taking the p!ss out of humanity. Rebelling is fun.



Stupidity.
Ignorance.
Exploitation.
Self-obsession.

In no particular order. None serve to help humanity. All, in one way or another, damage humanity. All rich people do this directly or indirectly and will use a dose of the above to excuse it.

Being well aware that you could go and buy an equally expensive electric car, custom built or just a Tesla, but proceed to go and buy a polluting one, means they tick some or all of the list above. They should be locked up and have responsibility and sense of consequence slapped into them. Now THAT I would willingly do in favour of mucking around on the road!



Fair enough. I'd totally be up for that. I'm not sure it would compare much to my uncles 190Bhp 500Kg F3 cars, but I'm up for any and all versions of fun. On a track preferably though. Not that I wouldn't trust your driving - but I have Karma to consider!



NB: anyone who takes any of that seriously needs to pop round mine for a good 'ard slapping session.

Its funny, because there was a black 996 C4S parked right next to my Cayman at the dealer. Fully loaded, low milage, very nice. They were the 2 cars I was deciding between.

You have to weigh the pro's/cons. The 911 is older, but more established. Its better equipt but looks dated. Performance wise in a straight line - there's not much in it - practically the same bhp/tonne.

I've not bought a car with a value over £7k before, so this was a substantial jump for me. And it made a difference that the 911 was 4 years old with triple the milage that the Cayman had. The Cayman smelt like a new car inside, had practically no exterior blemishes, and hadn't even been serviced yet (every 2 years or 20k) so I was buying practically a new car that had been run in for me and used for 10k. With a 996 C4S, you have the previous shape car with higher running costs, more frequent servicing, older technology, whilst although its better specced, wasn't enough to sway me. If you need back seats or have young kids (or are planning for a baby) then the 996 C4S would have my vote - its still a fab car. I also liked the fact that the Cayman was lighter and mid engined RWD, its a purer driving experience when compared to the heavier 4wd 911s (with the rear engined handling traits).

Don't get me wrong though, I'd probably buy a 997 C2S in future (facelift one with 385bhp) but a decent example early 997 C2S are still 50k, whilst worth it - I didn't want to get a loan!

Social outcast. (that is direct at Malformed)

Please - no nuclear weapons for that man

I think the wiki entry covers it, I am sure that i read this somewhere else as well.



And I do remember a green cayman from one of the tuning companies being in evo (I think it was green) looked very nice the only problem was the price at 117k !!

When people start to mess with the gtr tuning wise I dont think there would be many cars keeping up ....
For a 50k car it would seem the best option for cars in that area nothing will touch it.

I sat in one at goodwood the other day, nice friendly women at nissan thanks... Its nice inside but way too many gizmzos, compared to the old liner its on another level.

Unlikely - you haven't yet achieved respect around here.



And yet you do so well at them... (well, to be fair, I have no evidence for or against 'exploitation'. But three out of four ain't bad.)

Thanks mate, and yes - the Mrs definately loves the car! She wasn't keen on a TVR - the whole reliability issue and the fact that I can't work on a car in London put her off.

How does Fighting Torque work then? Are you put in a class against similar cars? Z4M coupe is fairly similar to the cayman performance wise, I'd expect the Z4M to have a little bit more in a straight line at the top end, and the Cayman to handle better/get better drive out of corners. I'll have a look for fighting torque.



Could just be down to the power delivery mate, an F40 is supposed to have quite a spikey delivery when it comes on boost (you've been in one so should be able to confirm if this is right!), whereas this turbo kit for the cayman only runs at 6 PSI - so I wouldn't expect much lag or a spikey delivery, which could minimise wheelspin in 1st and 2nd gear? In gear the F40 would probably be quicker (better power to weight), but 0-1xx times and 1/4 mile are dependant on traction in a big way. Could be modern tyres also give an advantage over the Pirelli badboys on an F40 which were designed in 1987!



Good point mate, I will adjust them tonight.

Wellformed, I'm not going to give answers to all of your points.

What I will say - is that you come across (very obviously to anyone reading your posts) as someone who is very envious of people that have more cash than you. That's your main problem - you think it's unfair that people get to have more than you do - and make up derogatory reasons for it (i.e. they sell their own mothers, they stamp on people etc...), and your way of dealing with it is to act like the people's champion, making a point about keeping up with or beating more expensive cars than your own. Fact is: you keeping up with an expensive car, shows that the car you drive is fast. The person racing against you is not trying to teach you a lesson, he's probably just enjoying his car and comes across you on the road, and has a play with you. It's no more sinister than that. He maybe isnt a car nut, so isn't going to talk to you, but that doesn't mean he's looking down on you. Thats your own complex that you've created I'm afraid.

You talk about being such a breath of fresh air - someone that breaks the mould, whilst I believe you work in IT for a corporate and sell your own soul for that same salary that anyone else working for a corporate gets. Your own lifeblood is the poison you preach about. But because it's not you bringing in the big bucks - you retaliate against those who do, and try to bring them down by generalising about their lives and jobs, when you don't know them from Adam.

You already admitted you'd buy an expensive car IF you could afford one, but the reality is you can't, and until that day comes (if it ever does) you will attack and belittle people who are living out their dreams. I'd stop wasting your time and effort trying to convince the world that you know the truth, and everyone else are sheep/blind/have rubbish lives, and try spending some more time on your own life. Then maybe you'd be able to get that GTR and stop dreaming about it.



I will quote this, and ask you to think about one point. On friday, I earnt the same as I did on Saturday. On friday I was the same person that I was on saturday. I don't step on people, my job allows people to meet regulations to be able to work and have a business, and feed their families. I had a coupe on friday, and I owned a Porsche on saturday. What changed about the person? Nothing. The only thing that changed is the car that I drive (a lump of metal/plastic), and every day you make massive generalisations about people just because of their method of transport. You should think about that, and how valid your thoughts are.

High earning potential isn't about when/where you were born or stepping on people. It's about hard work, taking risks, generating revenue, and applying rare intelligence/knowledge. And you're very capable of using your brain, why don't you use it in a positive way is beyond me though - instead of creating all these conspiracy theories about people that drive expensive cars.

That's my last post on the matter anyway, no offence meant, I just wanted to show you that not everyone that drives a Porsche is a tosser, and that one of your fellow coupe bro's - who is generally a nice dude, can drive one and not be a stuck up banker. Because to be honest, I'm actually in Insurance...........

Very nice car, definately should enter Fighting Torque There are no classes so expect to get your ass whooped by some of the monster metal there but you should be plenty competitive and of course it's all about finding out the limits of each car and how they compare over a standing mile.

BTW, if you enter then I'll race you

Just had a look at the Fighting Torque website, some serious cars going! Flea, it would be a pleasure to go against you if I can make it - would be great to see how your coupe performs in its state of tune!

Let me check my diary and make sure I'm free before applying, you guys sure they'd send me an invite in a standard Porsche - most of the cars going are modified/high power?!?!?

Me too and you Flea, we never got the chance last time. I am just interested in seeing how far you beat me by.....

Jules.

Simma,

See here - http://www.fightingtorque.org - if you fancy it then just submit the application on line, you're more likely to get accepted with it being standard, let me know if you apply and I'll put a word in for you.

Jules.

Gorgeous mate. Think i would have gone for the z4mc personally, but thats because i've got a thing for strange looking BMW's!

So does that mean you'll be coming round mine for a good slapping session SIMMA? Excellent, I'll get me pink Tripletec marigolds out!

Only if you let me wear my triple nomex suit Wellformed. I only practice safe sex I'm afraid...

He only practices safe asexual sex, which is pretty safe as it only invovles his hand

lol actually, I'd rather sit amongst the induced thoughts of my human-mind, than let my animal-mind run riot and splatter it's seed everywhere. The only hand act involved there is from the skinning-up tray to my mouth.