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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #726967
12/12/2008 23:28
12/12/2008 23:28

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porkypaul
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sounds good Joe i bet your well chuffed with the results so far?

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #726968
12/12/2008 23:34
12/12/2008 23:34
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Countrycruising Offline OP
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So fare so good Paul thumb

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #727077
13/12/2008 10:08
13/12/2008 10:08
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Berlin
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Berlin
Originally Posted by Countrycruising
The two AFM sensors are different but to get around this I convert a 20vt AFM housing so that the standard VIS AFM would fit.


Yah... but why would that help you? You still have the same sensor and hence it will still limit on excess airflow. What you need is something that throws out less volts for the same airflow, so it can cover all the range you need, *and* you need to look at the airmass -> injector period maps...

That is, it needs to tell the ECU that there's about half the air going through that there actually is - so it doesn't flatline at boost - and then the ECU needs to spit out twice as much petrol as it expects (plus adjustments for timing, load, temperature etc).

It may well be that the 20vt MAF can be used in place of the VIS unit but five terminals worries me; it may have completely incompatible controls or perhaps extra functionality - e.g. thermistor - in there also.

Might be simpler to look at the default behaviour of the out-of-range response, and just throw excess petrol in such a circumstance.... not as elegant, though.

Neil


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Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: barnacle] #727270
13/12/2008 17:57
13/12/2008 17:57
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Posts: 928
Wimbledon
paddy Offline
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Could you increase the size of the MAF housing, or is this a no go on the VIS?

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: paddy] #727274
13/12/2008 18:06
13/12/2008 18:06
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Countrycruising Offline OP
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The problem is the 5 wire VIS MAF sensor itself Paddy, the parameters that it's design to work within is totally different to the 20vt.

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #727280
13/12/2008 18:15
13/12/2008 18:15
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Berlin
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Berlin
... actually, that's not such a bad idea. If you can flow more air past the sensor without affecting the sensor - i.e. a larger diameter tube with the same sensor - it would logically read a lower value for the same mass of air.

Which is what you need, coupled with increased injectors, fuel rail pressure, and/or mapping tweaks.

(Note that doubling the fuel rail pressure only increases the flow rate by 141% and is probably limited by fuel pump parameters anyway.)


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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: barnacle] #727290
13/12/2008 18:24
13/12/2008 18:24
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Yes I think this is the idea that Ogri is having with increasing the induction pipework and moving the MAF position so that it's after the inter cooler, but he did say it may come down to patching in a standard 20vt MAF and wiring loom, but this would be either costly or time consuming.

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #727305
13/12/2008 18:50
13/12/2008 18:50
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Castle Combe
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Hmmm, like you say some good news and some bad. I didn't realise you hadn't connected the fuel return Joe, you are effectively running off pump pressure so I'm not suprised it is overfueling! I assume the VIS uses a normal MAF i.e. hot film/wire sensor, if so I agree with Barnacle in that I can't see how placing it further up the intake tract can make any difference other than the change in air temperatures. If you run a larger MAF housing then this will give better resolution. I currently run a much larger MAF housing than the standard 20vt which allows me to fuel for 2bar, 1.5bar and less with good resolution. The problem is the timing must be compensated, it's certainly not a bolt on mod but I'm sure Ogri knows this.

Any news on the VIS affecting low down torque?


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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Flea] #727306
13/12/2008 18:52
13/12/2008 18:52
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Castle Combe
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Oh I will be offering a "Big MAF" conversion to 20vt owners, you need to be boosting big to make it worthwhile though wink


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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Flea] #727337
13/12/2008 20:02
13/12/2008 20:02
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Staffordshire
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Originally Posted by Flea
Oh I will be offering a "Big MAF" conversion to 20vt owners, you need to be boosting big to make it worthwhile though wink


forms a queue......

laugh

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Nigel] #727470
14/12/2008 00:18
14/12/2008 00:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,794
Berlin
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Berlin
Might've known you'd be in there, Nigel!


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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: barnacle] #731479
19/12/2008 17:48
19/12/2008 17:48
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,312
Sandhurst
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Joe, some excellent spannering going on there. As Jimbo said, nice to see a completely different projet going on and as with all projects for the first time, there are loads of problems and niggles, but i'm sure you will get it sorted and running well thumb


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Begbie] #731613
19/12/2008 21:07
19/12/2008 21:07

S
samsite999
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samsite999
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any more updates on this Joe

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #736569
30/12/2008 20:47
30/12/2008 20:47
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Little update on this.

I brought the Hybrid back to the unit tonight from Reddot and took it for a quick spin before I parked it up.

We'll it boosts very well and drives much like a 20vt, the plenum is desperately in need of plastic welding as I'm sure I could hear pressure leaking past the gasket, so this as well as the fuel return line are first on the list when I get a chance to work on it again, then I'll start looking at the MAF issues but overall I'm very pleased so far smile

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #736579
30/12/2008 21:02
30/12/2008 21:02

P
porkypaul
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porkypaul
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Great stuff Joe

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #736584
30/12/2008 21:08
30/12/2008 21:08

S
samsite999
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samsite999
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thanks for the update Joe, looking forward to the inlet plenum getting welded and the fuel return sorted, then we can see what she can really do laugh

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #750910
19/01/2009 14:28
19/01/2009 14:28
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Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
It must be time for another update on this? smile


F****** b****** thing...
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Trappy] #751050
19/01/2009 16:51
19/01/2009 16:51

S
samsite999
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samsite999
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i believe the inlet plenum still needs to be plastic welded and the maf/fuel return needs to be sorted...he has been busy fixing my cars laugh

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #779827
23/02/2009 16:02
23/02/2009 16:02

S
samsite999
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samsite999
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Any update on the project Joe?

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #805800
01/04/2009 21:43
01/04/2009 21:43
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Well I've had a chance to get the hybrid up on the ramps this afternoon seeing that Bristol Italian Auto Moto Festival is only 3 weeks away, I thought it was about time I finished off the couple of issues it needs before getting the car remapped and hopefully running at 220bhp.

So I've now changed over the fuel lines so it now has a return and in line filter system, the weekend I'm trying a reinforced plenum to see if this stop the seals being blown out, hopefully I'll be turning the boost up to what it should be smile

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #848425
12/06/2009 09:19
12/06/2009 09:19
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Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
What happened to this project Joe? I just thought of it and looked in the Coupé Projects forum expecting to get an update... frown


F****** b****** thing...
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Trappy] #848442
12/06/2009 09:36
12/06/2009 09:36
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,644
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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Watford
...and the coupe soft top laugh


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: MarioCirillo] #848474
12/06/2009 10:34
12/06/2009 10:34
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FCSS 01684 593187
Countrycruising Offline OP
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It would just so happens that I brought the Hybrid back up to the unit this morning for phase 3 of " Try and seal the plenum again" rolleyes you must me spying on me Trappy laugh

Rob from Carlisle has kindly sent me some stronghold 902 adhesive so fingers crossed I'll be able to bond this bugger so it doesn't pop again, I'm only looking for standard boost pressure so if this doesn't work I think I may have to build a plenum out of Alloy and fit the standard plastic internals so that the VIS system still works, but hopefully I won't need to worry and I'll be updating the forum Sunday smile

As for the soft top, well I think I might of found the perfect 20v n/a for this project, just got to get it collected first, another job on the list.


Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #946386
06/12/2009 06:25
06/12/2009 06:25
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,961
west bromwich
C
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west bromwich
To bring an old thread back,what ever happened to this coupe?


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Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: coupedummy] #946506
06/12/2009 15:07
06/12/2009 15:07

K
knight7660
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knight7660
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Mr CC has been very busy lately so the hybrid has been put to one side until he frees up some time.

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #986550
18/02/2010 22:59
18/02/2010 22:59
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Essex
Trappy Offline
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Essex
Well, you've had over a year now Joe, have you finished yet? laugh


F****** b****** thing...
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Trappy] #1057869
23/06/2010 13:16
23/06/2010 13:16

N
nedge2k
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nedge2k
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N



bump, updates on the plenum? laugh

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: ] #1057875
23/06/2010 13:28
23/06/2010 13:28
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,644
Watford
MarioCirillo Offline
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Watford
Its nice an sunny...

20v SoftTop Joe? wink


Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #1185713
15/03/2011 09:12
15/03/2011 09:12
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I'll be throwing the dust sheet off this project again soon so hopefully I'll have a new progress report smile

Re: VIS Hybrid [Re: Countrycruising] #1185719
15/03/2011 09:29
15/03/2011 09:29

Z
zimpara
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zimpara
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Z



By soon I hope you mean today lol . What a great read and a lot of good work by yourself Joe.
Jason

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