Good to have an update on the car Richard, sounds like a monster!

The OMEX TC "SHOULD" be a better option than the racelogic. We have to wait until the upgrade is released.
As for the OMEX as an engine management its far superior than the Bosch.

Nick for the level of performance you are asking from your car I would seriously consider the other features that OMEX can offer since price wise there isn’t too much in it between Bosch + Race logic vs OMEX710.

Squid/TurboJ, your experiences with the Bosch system do not reflect the true nature of the system. This can also be said of Nigel who first took this route over 3 years ago until he came to me. Like any ecu including the Omex, the mapping is only ever as good as the person doing it! If you don't understand the systems then you can't map the car, it's that simple. You both had problems for that reason alone, no other. The old adage of a bad workman blaming his tools springs to mind...

However you have both chosen to go standalone which is great. The Omex is a good system like Motec, no prizes for it doing what it should! The difference being Omex have made it to be as easy as possible with a beautiful GUI telling you how to do this that and the other, it's a commercial product!

Anyway, just to pick you up on a couple of incorrect points:

1. The Bosch ecu doesn't require multiple mapping sessions, one session and the job is done. I have yet to map any coupe more than once UNLESS it has mechanical/electrical problems, the only instance of this thus far is Nigel.

2. The Bosch ecu is very sophisticated indeed, millions of pounds and thousands of man hours poured into it over the years have created a very clever system which meets the demands of manufacturers and customers alike. Granted it doesn't have extra drivers for TC, Nitrous etc, however in terms of all the natural parameters of the car it has no equal.

3. Cost, well the Bosch ecu is as cheap as it comes as it's already in place so no hardware, no loom, no installation... just the mapping which also happens to be a fair bit cheaper too.

Oh and well done on getting your car to that level Squid, it's taken a bit longer than you wanted but hopefully you can enjoy it and perhaps get some good times on the dragstrip for TOTB

I think that one of the only other major advantages with the Omex is the MAP sensor?

The Bosch system also has facilities for knock so that if you had a boost controller which could use that input you could safe guard your engine from det.

im sure both system are equaly as good as the other in different ways, I mean we would be here for ever arguing the fact that one is better than the other. I think i will be going for the omex ecu nothing against the bosch i just think having somone who can mapp it localy would be best as well flea is not close to me, i know you might say it only takes one mapp flea for someone that lives no where near you what if say for example i decide to buy a new turbo or new injectors id have to drive up there again rather than just drive up the road and if anything does go wrong (these things do happen sometimes) i can take it straight back.

Actually a MAF gives many benefits over a MAP sensor, hence why it is used on all productions cars including big power turbo cars.

In general a MAF will give you much better resolution to tune with and hence more accuracy especially with light loads and part throttle i.e. better throttle response and driveability. It is quicker to respond, can take into account changes in altitude and temperature more readily, allows for better idle and cold start, better fuel economy. It is also more adept to changes in volumetric efficiency e.g. cams, exhaust & induction etc, as it is fully load based not reliant on absolute pressure. There is no question that for a road car MAF is better.

You should also consider the powerful diagnostics and error logging of the Bosch ecu, going aftermarket will loose these functions. If a sensor fails or is not quite correct then it is logged e.g. if the car doesn't start you can see if it's the crank or cam sensor playing up, dodgy injector or air temp sensor.... the list goes on.

Nick I fully understand your reasons, you should of course do what is best for you! My point was more to redress the notion that aftermarket is the better system, it isn't, it just makes it easier.

Nick, alot of this will come down personal opinion, Fleas for instance is to stick with the bosche setup and others like TurboJ/Squid and my self would go for the Omex

Flea makes a few good points in the maf VS map debate but there are some benefits for going for a map based system, reliability being the main one

As for logging faults with the omex you can just plug in your lap-top and see what sensors are playing up so no big issue there

Also, Flea, i understand Nicks issue with having to come back for a tweak on the map, squid himself had to have the car put back on the dyno with a delay as he maxxed out his injectors, there is no reason that something like this could not happen or as you say your self if there was an elctrical fault of some kind

These things should not happen but as im sure you know they do

Also Nick, all the top engine management sytems are map based, motec/autronic.......

All cosworths and lancia delta were map based and they worked fine on the road no matter the level of tune

Map based aftermarket systems are fitted to things like skylines and supras and they originally are maf based and ive never really been able to pick fault in the throttle response or anything with a map based system for that matter so dont spend to much time dwelling on the subjest

Anyway im sure what ever route you go for you will be happy

Ricky

I am aware of datalogging in terms of real time information but actual error codes and malfunctions, intermittent or otherwise, stored in the ecu?



They are because it is cheaper and easier to introduce despite being cruder to map with. MAP is not used on factory cars because it is older technology, cannot allow the same driving refinement as MAF or meet emissions and fuel economy standards. MAP works, carbs also work but things move on, neither would be the first choice. For race cars and high powered drag cars it is an easy solution where none of this really matters, but for medium powered road cars MAF wins. Even the Bugatti Veyron runs with MAF!



Actually if you had asked me a couple of years ago I would have gone with Omex despite the cost, that's what a really bad experience will do to you! However, this led me to where I am now. I started to think that if VAGs with 500bhp, Evos with 500bhp, Skylines with 600bhp+ can all run on a standard ecu MAF based system then it surely it had to possible for a Fiat Coupe 20vt to run at 300-500bhp on a standard MAF ecu? The answer was already yes, it just had to be done.

I have both the racelogic and omex on my car, and very happy with them.

But right now i can't see how the omex should replace the racelogic..it would at least req speed sensor/abs from every wheel. and if i remember correct, i do not have 4 free input at my omex?

I don't have anything against a maf setup and as you say it is superior in quite a few ways but what I am saying is the difference in the real world is not noticable, from my own experience at least, of course the mapper makes a big difference here

Also flea your unlikely to see a skyline running with a standard ecu past 400bhp, the apexi is not a piggyback system it is a plug and play replacement for the standard ecu


This system is flawed and the main drawback is that it still uses flow meters, the hks f-con is a piggy back but only as the standard ecu controls more than just the engine, the hks f-con is mapped based and is noticebly better than the original and apexi ecu's in the throttle response and a smoothness areas, this is the route I have gone and the differences I have noticed.

It's dificult to compare car to car though

There are pros and cons for both setups but in my opinion when you are tuning are car to this sort of level then somthing like an omex system is better

My reason for the OMEX is as follows:

1) I don't trust the AFM it is an expensive sensor for a start, secondly we all know it causes the majority of problems as STD anyway. I want more reliability as holding power to redline on a top speed run can melt an engine if the AFM plays up. (OMEX can run AFM’s but I’d rather not)

2) Features such as TC & launch controls are useful to help me get a better 1/4 time.

3) I want a second ignition map for which ever use aquamist/NOS or fuel change.

4) I am able to map myself and it has a nice GUI and easy to use despite the fact that I could play with the Bosch myself.

5) I require being able to remap my car ASAP so Bristol is not an option for me.

6) I like the data logging feature.

Just some points:
OMEX can do full throttle gear shifts.
OMEX can use the STD knock sensors for safety too.
OMEX can see sensor faults and make changes according.
OMEX has a shift light.

I think it all depends on how you want to use your car. I still think that people who want an every daycar with decent power levels should keep Bosch, Other who want a race/drag car should go standalone. And for those of us in between should weigh up the point in this thread and decide.

Sorry about the spelling and gramma mistakes, I'm doing this on a iPhone and it's predicts and changes some things I'm typing

Another thing about OMEX is that they support are superb.
They really do everthing they can yo help you.

Jason you make I laugh! I can take most of what you say with good humour and a pinch of salt but seriously?! Coupes have MAF, not AFM, but either way do you honestly worry when the MAF is used by every manufacturer in the world including Ferrari, Porsche, GT-Rs, Corvettes, Bugattis, Lambos, Aston... How many 1/4 miles, track days and V-max runs have you done? Come back in 3-4 years when you have really gone to town with your Bravo and then you'll know about reliability when going for it

ok so after realising Omex had moved premises I caught up with Andy. I was there to deal with a telemetry issue with my ecu.

Regarding the proposed TC, it wont use 4 wheel sensing, instead it uses a recorded trace of what would be the cars maximum accelerative curve change in RPM versus change in wheel speed for each gear. Using gearbox or drive shaft sensors the behaviour of the the wheels is monitored against the base trace, when a wheel spin event occurs the change in wheel rpm is well above the maximum accelerative trace invoking the TC event, spark retard, spark cut or fuel cut. Problem is the programming at the moment there is difficulty in getting the ecu to constantly reference the input with the reference map at a high enough rate. Andy is confident that it won't be too long before they get it right.

Incidently a note on errors, when you have a screen telling you the value of a sensor in Sci unit its real easy to see if the numbers make sense you don't need any codes to look up. Anyway fastest throttle response is speed position with no MAF or MAP sensor....of course no turbo either...

Rich

I am funny because I think the MAF/AFM is an unreliable sensor? I clearly stated my reasons for the OMEX over the Bosch. Any how we will see what I can do at TOTB.

MAF or AFM its not for me. End of.

This discussion seems to be getting a bit heated. Im sure everyone has different oppinions, its human nature some people would prefer a golf to a coupe (they must be mad ) lol i think i will be paying a little extra and get the omex ecu as flea being the only one in england at the moment that can mapp the bosch ecu properly, its just a little far if i decide to start tweeking. im sure no matter what ecu people decide to use you will be more than happy as long its mapped properly. As i said we will be here for ever trying to decide which is better all i wanted to know was the benefits of a omex ecu over a bosch with race logic and i have gathered loads of information so i thank you all but i think omex is best for me. cheers

Not sure what you are waiting for?

i think he meant Squid?

What suspension mods? There is a lot more to traction and handling than banging on a set of off the shelf coilovers....

You have to set up the car on corner weights and also do load weights with fuel and driver aswell to get the car to work as a complete package with regards suspension setup and traction control.

i know all this i have done a few suspension mods probably not to the extent that you are all talking. But as im getting my engine rebuilt very soon i want to get it all in at once and if i start to decide to do more with suspention later i can. suspention mods was not my question. But i understand what you are saying suba and paddy. i will still probably want traction control and maybe launch control after a perfect suspention setup for the coupe as it would be more consistent.

I just sold a complete Race Logic system complete with upgrade digital controller for 500 euro.

Would have been a nice bargin for someone here.

Its now on a GTR Skyline in Holland.and the owner is extremely happy.

good for you.

You keep on laughing there buddy.