Well as some of you know I recently bought a coupe from user "k3v" on this forum, SOMEONE WHO AS ASKED ADVICE AND RECIEVED HELP and also been a member here for a while.

Well it started last night for some reason I had the urge to check my previous mots online that kev said he misplaced. Well I found the car had failed its mot a few times and that has now been rectified. So that was a little suspicious.

Then I decided to have a browse through the invoices that were with the car and came across the cam belt one.

This invoice particularly caught my attention as the mileage and date printed on the invoice just didn’t ad up to the mot's mileage.

Yes he stated in his advert that the cam belt was changed at 89k and he assured me on the phone it was done in September 2008 when he bought the car... well kev didn’t buy the car in September he bought it in February 2008... Ok so I thought his dates weren’t accurate, so comparing the date on the invoices to the date of the mot, the mot's mileage in Feb. 2008 was 101k; yes the invoice dated September 2008 was 89k.

This is where I started to get angry. I looked closely at the date on the invoice and the little arsehole had changed the date on the invoice from 2005 to 2008 by adding a line to join the numbers.

In 2005 the mileage was 89k, so kev assured me that the cam belt was done just less than a year ago, turns out it hasn’t been done in 4 years.

It really makes me wonder who you can trust now days, he did seem genuine when I met him, and 2 of my friends were with me when he was showing me the invoices but it just didn’t cross my mind. The mileage is fine on the car, but now I have a nice 400 bill that I wasn’t expecting till a few years time, and rapidly starting to lose love for this poor machine.

so Kev, if you read this... expect a letter from my solicitor soon also most likely a court summons from the small claims court as I’ve spoken to the previous owner and the garage who carried out the work who both say they will write me a signed letter and give any evidence necessary to support my case that the documents were correctly dated and not "forged" in anyway.

Goodnight!

Blimey - that sounds pretty poor to me....

Although I have total sympathy with your situation, I'm not convinced stating it publicly on this forum before informing the person in question of your intient is a good move at all.

ive tried calling him he answered the phone i stated who i was, he then hung up.

i think that everyone has a right to know how low he really is.

and why not this is the only way he will find out as he has ignored my calls ant texts since.

shame but can i just point out, you cant take him to court or anything, its a private sale, sold as seen, no proof he has changed the date etc etc, no case.

just be more careful in the future.

if paper work has been falsified to aid sale, you have grounds to take it all the way if you want. having been done on many a car. i wished this comes as a surprise to me. I just expect people to lie to me about a cars history now, that way i'm not disappointed

edit, to the post above, there is no such term sold as seen, and it offers you little to no legal protection if some one wants to take it that way

just realised that he owned it before the edited date, in which case he is surely the only one who could of editied.

still though, unless you have alot more proof he can say you edited the invoice.

good luck tho!

ok, from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index...bought_the_vehicle_from_a_private_seller

You bought the vehicle from a private seller

You have very few legal rights if you have bought the vehicle from a private seller rather than a dealer.

The vehicle doesn't have to be of satisfactory quality. However, if the seller offers a description of the vehicle, it must match the description given. It must also be roadworthy and the seller must have 'good title' to the vehicle. This means that they must be the legal owner in order to sell it to you.

If the vehicle doesn't match the description given, you may be entitled to compensation. You may also be entitled to compensation if you have bought an unroadworthy car from a private seller, which has caused injury to someone. However, it may be especially difficult to get compensation from a private seller.

You will only be able to claim against a private seller for one of the following reasons:

* the vehicle doesn't match the description they gave you
* the seller broke a specific contract term
* the seller was actually a dealer posing as a private seller
* the seller did not have good title to the vehicle
* the vehicle is unroadworthy.

Sorry to hear this, and have every sympathy, but I think it's going to be pretty hard to actually prove it was him that forged the date and not a previous owner (however ridiculous this would be)...

In all fairness it's just a crappy thing to do

there were 2 friends with me looking over the papaer work,both would stand in court to argue it. also me contacting the previous owner and also the garage who confirmed it was done in 2005.

he blatently did it because he couldnt be arsed to have it changed. he changed it sneakily if you wasnt looking for it then you wouldnt know he'd dont it.

but how could the pevious owner edit the invoice as he would have had to change it to after he sold it... 7 months after he sold it?

This would be the crux of it. If you have proof that you were told that it had been changed in 2008, and it was actually changed in 2005, then it is 'not as described'. Mind you, it might all get awkward. I would suggest getting a mod to hide this thread for now, and see if they can broker a 50/50 compromise on the cost of the change that now needs doing.

If it were me, I take it to the small claims for the cost of the new cambelt.

The car was not as described and in my opinion you have enough evidence to make that stick in court

Remember, in a civil case the burden of proof is not 'beyond reasonable doubt' but 'on the balance of probabilities'

The fact that you can tie a specific invoice back to the garage and they are willing to write you a letter saying that invoice relates to 2005 and not 2008 seems a winning combination to me

Do to others as you would have them do to you - seems society at large has forgotten this these days....

Is it just me, or are we seeing more of this on the forum of late?

Is this down to a change in the ownership demographic now coupe's are so cheap to acquire (still not cheap to run!) or perhaps a symptom of the recession?? Its sad either way

In answer to your last question Graeme - yes I'd agree.

That's a nasty thing to do - apart from lying through his teeth you could also have had a cambelt go on you, and a very big bill for some new valves.

I'm glad that I found a decent chap to buy my coupe - and I told him about every little niggle. You would not believe the number of idiots I had on the phone offering me 2K for the car...because the cambelt was due in a year and a half's time...

Might be finacially worth getting quotes from Fiat and non specialist garages for supply and fitting of a new cambelt.

What i will say........hate to be the one to have to say this, there are two sides to EVERY story. The forum, and my self on occasion are often to quick to light out touches and pick up out pitch falks for out by weekly which hunts.

im not saying what been put above isnt true, and that the evedance doest look a tad compelling. But there is a reason why courts have a defendant AND an accuser

If you feel you have been wronged, take it to small clames, you both get a chance to put a case across with evidence. Then some one not attached or involved, and most importantly impartial to both sides will decide on the correct recompense.

I hope you get this sorted, and though the correct channels

Unlucky Dave

Remember when we were looking for a coupe for me and we drove down to Kent to see that sprinty from someone selling it on here?
All seemed kosher so I said I was interested following the test drive... went home and did a DVLA check.
It was clocked 40,000 miles less at a coupe of stages which showed up on the register =/
When I confronted the owner he stopped talking to me, funny that

Just goes to show that you can't trust anyone these days!

Dan

[quote]Just goes to show that you can't trust anyone these days!/quote]

I know it seems like it, but that's not true really. Most people are honest, but it's those few that aren't altogether 'straight' that stand out!

Even buying from someone via the forum, you should still take the normal sort of care that you would buying from anyone.

Luckily, you do stand a chance of getting a Coupe that's been better maintained from a Club / Forum member than not.

Seems like there's a case to take this to claims court though - needs to be done.

Sorry to hear about this Blue20VT

It is a case of buyer beware. You have to be so careful these days even buying from those that you think you trust.

You can very easily end up getting ripped off or being sold a shed if you let your guard down.

It is likely to be worse in the current economic climate, when cars are worth less and no one has any money to spend on the car etc..

I hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.

Just go round and get 400 quid stop winging on here and be a bloke about it, is it worth court for 400 quid, go round with mates! Its awfull how someone on the forum would do this my freind got stung on milage on a mk4 golf that had been clocked and docs edited he got. Big chunk of money with 1 visit!

not sure that, legally, that's the best advice i've ever seen despite having some sympathy for the argument...

Im no lawyer, everythings so politicly correct these days. Just go make a visit 1st if not go down the long drawn out route. I know what id do.

Really?? hadn't noticed

<mod> Seriously... I would refrain from these types of sugestions as they sway towards illegal activity. <mod>

Huh what do you mean, just go round and ask for 400 nikker!!!!! Soon people be advising taking a guy to court if they nick your girlfriend.

Why didn't I think of that... lol

Just going round and asking (politely) has gotta be worth a try.

In all seriousness, the cash you would spend on legal fees are probably far better spent on just getting the cambelt done again.

Even if you do "win", then you've still lost. It's going to eat up a lot of your time, and you'll be lucky if you see about £250 at the end of the day. A small claims judge is unlikely to get as excited as a coupe enthusiast over the important of cambelt maintenance.

None of the information you've gathered was unavailable prior to sale, so they could just tell you to get caveat emptor rammed right up your hoop.

400 quid and you can have her......

Unfortunately you dont 'really' have a leg to stand on.

It is the buyers responsibility to check everything, and by buying the car you have happily taken the rights of ownership.

Its happened to me before, it sucks. BUT, its not the end of the world. Sure its a shame to have happened, and especially on an enthusaiasts forum, but now you know to check everything with a magnifying glass!

Remember, it could always have been worse *touchwood*, I presume its a good runner.