Right, whats the general concesus about removing these?

Remove the belt & tensioner only, leaving the shafts in place?

or....

Remove the belt & tensioner, shafts and blank the ends?


PROS AND CONS FOR EACH PLEASE!

I'd remove them completly but thats an engine out job. Means you can block the centre bearing which might is you've got a less than perfect oil pressure help restore it. Removing them completly gets rid of a big weight too.

Nik

Yeah you would have to block it otherwise no oil pressure at all.

Unless the engine is out I would leave it in.

The engine is out on an engine crane at the moment.

Then you can remove, mine are blocked atm.

Has anyone removed and locked theirs off?

You won't be saving that much weight by removing them. All depends on how much weight you want to loose from it, as you will probably loose about 4KG from removing the shafts, otherwise, just leave them in place, lock them up and forgot about it

How would I go about locking them?

i have to ask...
why would you remove these anyway?

our 16v is in for cam belt and service as we speak, now i bought a complete belt kit, cam belt, balance belt

etc and all bearings/tensioners etc.

the guy phoned me today and told me that the balance belt was completly shagged and only had around 100 miles left!

excuse my ignorance but why would you remove a part like this from the engine?

surely there is only one long term outcome???

they take power from the engine. If you have balanced internals they can be removed, like I have done.

ok, so why are they there in the first place?

Because a 5 pot by nature isn't a smooth balanced engine, the balancer shaft tries to replicate the nice smooth 6 cylinder engine.

As far as I know, they just arent required on a 16VT, which is obviously only a 4 pot.

I know a couple of people who have removed them that are going for reasonably high power on their 16VTs.

In the 16v's case after years of rotating at twice crank speed with the purpose of absobing a tiny imbalance (which really it small) they like to wear the centre bearing which is fed oil from the crank centre main, one of the bigger culprits for loss of oil pressure that's shortly followed by engine failure. The complex and fragile nature of the belts and outer bearings (which seize on older engines as they never get replaced, the ones in the block) and the fact it's all very close to the cambelt make for potential belt failure when it gives up the ghost and pulls the cam belt off with it. The increase in turning torque the engine has with this system means a benifit in horsepower when they are done away with which if they are removed completly and the centre bearing dealt with will also allow a better supply of oil to the centre main and rod bearings. Not too sure how the 20v system is catered for but I'd imagine there'd be similar benefits to doing without them.

Nik

i have my engine in the car obviously can i just cut the balance belt and remove it and hey presto done?

would this work

Thats all I done, I had the engine out and just fitted new shell bearings in the middle with a big washer behind the pulleys to stop them rotating.

I don't see how you could block the central oil feed for the front shaft, theres no access?

would it matter if i didnt lock the pulleys as i dont fancy remopving my timing belt

They do technically still have a place on a 5 pot, but a lot of us run without. The thing it probably helps with the most is Fiat's massively unbalanced rods. If you are taking apart the engine I would strongly suggest balancing the rods if nothing else.

If you cut the belt and leave at that the cambelt runs against the idler and rotates the balance shaft.

I've a bung which has a threaded hole in it which using a LONG bolt or a length of threaded rod can be guided into the block to locate in position before either pressing it in or persuaded home with a suitable wooden drift and tapping stick :-)easy job and peace of mind. No loose oil clearances once thats in position.

just to bring this thread back im gunna cut my balance belt off tomorrow with a little guidence from here.

how do you lock the blance shafts off as i cant remove mine

pics maybe good

I would remove them if I had the opportunity purely because they are a compromise...

I locked mine in place as recommended by guy croft.

See bottom of this page.
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic....d=a454ff2b2136c7d89d7025db30b0d091#p8974

I made my own easy enough,
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/3857207010_3084c845ea_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3857168978_472b1c8859_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2449/3857170378_42d187a2a3_b.jpg

The 20vt engine does not have a balance belt.

Alfa 4 pots do, and the 16v.

i dont really have the accesss you do as you have your head off, Is it only the rear balance shaft that needs to be clamped and can te belt be removed without me ripping half of the engine off just to get to it?

I never really thought about it with the head on. You probably wouldn't easily be able to get to them with the head, engine stabiliser, metal cover on!

I'm not certain but I think if you just take the top 3 bolts out of the timing belt cover and move the coolant bottle out of the way you should be able to cut the belt and get it off. Best wait for somebody else to confirm that though!

I'm not certain they actually need to be locked, I know a few alfa owners that remove the belt and just leave the shafts as they are and haven't had any problems. I just did it because it was easy when I'd the head off.