I can see I've got my work cut out here, you make it very hard with your misunderstandings. Mass and volume are two entirly separate things, mass = volume x density. It's way too complex to start thrashing this out with you on this forum your IMO just too far wrong. Look at the basic calculation above and consider what the air is doing and what it has to negotiate (the amount of it is the strong hint) The volume of the intercooler I posted isn't big and it's certainly not as big as the volume of air being passed by the turbo. I've had enough for tonight and don't want a row, just asking for you to think outside the box for a minute and ignore what you might of read elsewhere, it's not all true what you might read out there by any means. Ever thought about a low boost engine? Boost afterall is a measurment of restriction. Sorry if I offend you, it's not meant to be that way

OK now I will have my say. I’ll keep it basic. When planning an air to air intercooler there are a few steps.

First would be to choose core type tube and fin or bar and plate. For the coupe I would choose bar and plate as it has a greater heat rejection ability.

Next would be to keep as large a surface as possible.

Next would be to keep the air charge path as smooth as possible to minimise flow loss throughout the whole intake system not just the intercooler.

Choose a core thickness that suits the layout considering airflow and other rads.

That is the basics steps. To go further you have to look into the core construction. The cores are designed to turbinate the air so that it gives up its heat to the tube walls thus being cooled by the flowing air. This turbineace kills flow but encourages heat transfer, so a medium must be found, which is gonna be down to the methods of the manufacture. The length of the tubes are also a factor to this longer tubes pull out more heat but restrict flow whereas short tubes reduce flow loss but have less heat transfer, hence the turbinace design becomes important depending on the length of the tubes. Long tubes less turbinaces short tube more turbinance.

Now onto core thickness, air moving through picks up heat towards the rear and then there is an aircon rad and water rad to cool so really I would say no thicker than 2 ½” as air becomes stifle and blocks flow.

There are many other factors to consider but I can’t bothered to write anymore. To me the bottom line is, can my intercooler handle the boost I intend to run? Is the response good? Mine is yes and yes so therefore I’m happy. It is a compromise to fit in but it does the job for my power level and to me that’s all that matters. Sometime in the future I might redesign my intake system as I’m sure there are improvements to be made.

Answer this. Pushing boost higher to overcome flow restriction or lower the boost and have a bigger intercooler, which is better served?

Just to add i like this shape

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=34&phot_key=996

"Can i ask have you actually owned a turbo car before or ever actually worked with tunning a turbo cars"


I've ran and maintained Fiat/lancia 16v engines for 13 years and more or less rebuilt from scratch the entire engine and all of the components in it to my design with the help of the worlds best, I know this engine inside out and the concept of turbo charging engines is my obsessive pursuit. I'm hands on in every way I can and could bore you senseless in matters of turbo charging engines and particularly the 16v Fiat twink. To me I have to know what I'm asking for and why when I spend the stupid money my engine consumes, it's not finished admittedly but it will be, I've got patience in abundance, I've got to as unless I win the lottery it'll take time yet. I work my own cylinder heads, not randomly but logically and mathamatically and build from scratch inlet manifolds and exhaust manifolds to complement the work I've done with logical method and thought. I own 5 integrales and a hf turbo and have had two 20vt's and a couple of uno turbos along with a collection of just shy of 20 cars at the minute so I'm no newb.

ach i'm really getting confused now..
is the EVO/Pro-alloy Intercooler can handle GT2876 on a boost of 1.5 bar?
i don't want to change IC every year but if those above can handle that then i don't need something more expansive with the same (??) or reduced results.
but if the expansive one have the advantages then i would be happy to have it

It'll handle it no bother but there's still power on the table, it can be had if you want it but be warned it'll cost you big time, one improvement creates a deficiency elsewhere, to do correctly it's a full package of harmony.

Yes i run a t34 cosworth stage 2 .64 trim turbo which is the same as the GT34 spec on my 16vt with a 2.5" intake and intercooler system with a evo 6 FMIC with a greddy profec B spec II controller with 1.1 bar min and 1.3 max and on my week of madness when i ran 1.5 bar my widget showed me that the engine temps were fine and the FMIC kept the charge temps down 35 degrees air temp and 87 degrees water temp, The only draw back of having the additional power and heat is the standard oil heat exchanger the oil can warm up pretty quickly i use 5-40 fully synthetic oil which is a good oil for the 16vt engine with no draw backs.

To maintain 1.5 bar of boost constantly you will need a spesso gasket ith a set of fire rings as this can cause HG failure on the standard fiat gasket.

If you get a dink stage 2 chip and run 1.3 bar the standard gaskets can cope with this and gives very good power and response or for a more defined tune up go to flea.

which GT2876 are you looking at as there are different versions?

GT2876R there is no variation just a choice of 0.64 or 0.86 on turbine A/R. That turbo is also not recommended by Garrett for normal use.

GT34 doesn’t exist

5w-40 oil just sounds wrong to me.

I know I’m a 20VT fan but I would like to know your justification for this.

Its a spec the guys do who rebuilt my turbo its a t34 which is a .60 trim but mine was fitted with a 64 insted its like there own special hydrid which they use on cosworths wanting to gain 400bhp

5-40 oil was recommended by walkers and the oilman and i used it on my old MRFQ 340

I think were drifting away from the original thread purpose here lol.

Don't buy a GT2876R, that turbo will not suit your car or any coupe - in fact even garrett say it is rubbish for high performance engines (check their site)

the evo intercooler will be fine to support over 300bhp or more - evo guys seem to run them to 350bhp, or the pro alloy which is "coupe tested". You can make something bigger fit I guess but as turbo J design internal design and cooling ability and pressure drop are more important then overall size

You can spend mega bucks on a IC, if you are building everything else for peak performance go for it, for me I didn't spend too much just went with the tried and tested.

Thanks for the advice guys but my coupe is installed with the GT2876 0.86 already with external wastegate. i have the spesso head gasket, 3 inch all the way inc' the downpipe, thema NA cam-shaft, engine head got porting, bosch 991 fuel pump (and maybe another thing i forgot to mention)
the car runs now with 0.8 bar (because i have the crappy side original intercooler so i don't want to raise the EGT temps to high places)
anyway the car runs really good with this (not recommended) turbo on that low boost starting 4,000Rpm untill 6,300Rpm.

Just need to decide which intercooler goes inside and raise the boost to 1.2 Bar (don't want to put a big pressure on the pistons/rods before going forged [in the sooner future])

so, LOL, i guess the PROVEN IC is the answer im looking for.

sounds like a good spec you have there its just missing a nice evo intercooler

what engine managment are you using

It's really scary what advice people start handing out, especially when they are so miss guided them selfs

I don't mean to offend you gt_sebo but your theory on intercooling is so far off the mark it's laughable

I do not have anything to add here with regard to intercooling theory as it's pretty much been covered by other users but I do feel that unless you are aiming to obtain every last scrap of power then the tried and tested methods are fine, if not you need to do as 1NRO and TurboJ have described above

Thanks!
I am not using engnie managment, but a costume made chip made by a friend.
i do not think i need a pro engnie managment before doing the forged internals and raising some serious boost.

I honestly don't know why you would ever change from the original P8 engine management, the cosworth lot have been running it forevor and it's capable of doing pretty much everything, like anti-lag, launch control, closed loop lambda control and it is easily mapped for pretty much any size if injectors, what does a stand alone system offer that you cannot do with P8 system?

i didn't know that our original engine managment can do all of those things... all the time i'm hearing about people who tells me to change the engine managment.

by the way, when i looked on Ebay for EVO intercooler then everyone says it's capable of 650bhp max and here people are talking about 350bhp +/- so which specs are true?

the ones on ebay are aftermarket ones, the max a evo cooler can take is 450bhp as the MRFQ400 uses the same standard evo cooler

so to be sure on 100%, they are cool with the coupe 16VT?

i have one on mine and ive run 1.5 bar with no problems

goto www.lancerregister.com for cheap evo intercoolers im a member on there and there are some good deals

Sorry to thread hi-jack but thought it better than starting another thread of my own..
I used to have a Turbo-revs FMIC which I didn't get on well with and sold to Marco on here.. However, since I no longer use the coupe as a daily driver I can put some money onto it again so thinking of something a bit more sutble that will go behind the standard bumper with little work.

FMIC on Ebay..

For those in the know, would this be ok? 2.5" inlet and outlet and slim enough to hang under the cross member.

Dan

2.5 is enough both from slimness and effectivness points of view.

I dont get it - you have already bought one that has not worked. Now you are going to buy another, spend £200 on pipework that you can't necesarily transfer to a different IC and then hope it does the job?

Pro alloy and Evo IC's are proven on coupes - get one.

I didn't say it didn't work suba, I meant that it didn't work having a quite frankly mahooosive ic with my standard bumper (when I first had the fmic I was using a cada front end) so I got rid. I still have some pipework left over as well as silicone couplers and have my sources for free and cheap bits so should be fine

Ok - but for any decent FMIC you are going to have to hack the standard bumper to fit it.

We'll have to wait and see

Yes that intercooler will be perfect. It's exactly the same as the one I use. Read my Project thread for more details and photos. Ignore Suba!