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Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread #947100
07/12/2009 14:28
07/12/2009 14:28

N
ninja
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Comments on my thread

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #952659
17/12/2009 10:29
17/12/2009 10:29
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,725
London
kj16v Offline
My life on the forum
kj16v  Offline
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Posts: 1,725
London
Nice work. A really interesting project

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: kj16v] #953472
18/12/2009 17:36
18/12/2009 17:36

B
bulldog5046
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bulldog5046
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are you intending to run Coupe alloys or find something else?

reason i ask is the coupe rear arms are slightly wider and on mine i have arch issues with my Stilo alloys on the back, just keep it in mind incase you find you have rubbing issues after.

Ry

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #953613
18/12/2009 21:43
18/12/2009 21:43

4
4076_20vt
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4076_20vt
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looks like good progress mate, when you reckon you will have it done?

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #953760
19/12/2009 12:07
19/12/2009 12:07

N
ninja
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ninja
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N



cheers guys,

4076 - i have plans to go to santa pod in april next year so thats my target smile but obviously the engine will need to be run in that time aswell, so fingers crossed....

bulldog - i wasnt aware there was any differnce in the rear arms. i was planning on keeping the bravo rear subframe and adding the coupe brakes.

are the subframe mountings are the same thougth, and the ARB mounting? just the arm are wider?

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #960283
03/01/2010 17:46
03/01/2010 17:46

B
bulldog5046
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bulldog5046
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from what i have gathered its only the swingarms that are different, just a bit wider.

i only changed mine while i was trying to get the ABS working which i gave up on in the end.

if you plan on keeping the bravo swing arms you wont have any issues with the arches, but ABS may not work, i think it depends on what system you have fitted, mine had a kelsey-hayes system and it was not compatible with the front sensors, i replaced it all for a Bosch system and couldnt get that to interface with the car loom correctly so gave up.

probably wont matter as your are only using yours for track smile

Ry

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961092
04/01/2010 22:08
04/01/2010 22:08

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



Watch the brake reservoir as well.as the turbo hits on the inlet on the hlx conversions.
If i were you i would swap to the coupe rear subframe as then youll have the rear discs.
Although i know for a fact that the bravos standard brakes are better than when i used the brembos.

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961128
04/01/2010 23:26
04/01/2010 23:26

N
ninja
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ninja
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N



i made sure i kept the brake reservoir off the coupe smile

i will be fitting a rear disc conversion onto the bravo subframe as the HLX has got drums, although the extra track would possibly of been nice.

i'll have to check the ABS when the loom goes in, ive got the unit off the coupe, but i hope i dont have to swap it frown

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961132
04/01/2010 23:35
04/01/2010 23:35

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



The Abs is different.You will struggle there.
The hgt runs the same system as the coupe,however the hlx doesnt.The sensors and the looms are different.

The coupe subframe bolts straight on to the bravo,the hgt is the same as coupe but the hlx isnt.So you ll need to swap them.
Also the Hgt and coupe run the compensator on the Frame and im not sure if the hlx does or if it runs the same setup as the punto where it uses 2 compensators?
Youl find out i guess.

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961624
05/01/2010 21:08
05/01/2010 21:08

N
ninja
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ninja
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N



are the HGT rear arms different to any other bravo? cause there is no difference in the rear body/arches between bravo models? (front arches are wider but the rears arent and wouldnt that cause issues, like bulldog says?)

i know the hgt rear brakes can be (retro) fitted to the lower model bravos so i'm happy with that if there the same calipers as the coupe, although i will have to check the compensator (plus i left the rear subframe on the coupe when i scrapped it, doh)

as for the abs, the bravo sensors fit the coupe brakes, so the abs is still working atm. when i swap the loom and ecu it may present a problem, i'll just have to cross that bridge when i come to it.

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961632
05/01/2010 21:15
05/01/2010 21:15

J
johnnybravoturbo
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johnnybravoturbo
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J



I couldnt tell you.Im not sure if the rear arms between the models are different as i know the front ones are shorter.
May be worth posting on Boo.

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961890
06/01/2010 11:56
06/01/2010 11:56

N
ninja
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ninja
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N



had i quick check for available parts from shop4parts

they only list 2 rear trailing arm for the fiat bravo, ABS and non ABS. (not model specific, like the fronts)
and they dont list any for the coupe!?

they also list the same compensator valve for the coupe as the bravo.

see im still hopeful smile

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #961918
06/01/2010 12:21
06/01/2010 12:21
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,989
ation
szkom Offline
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szkom  Offline
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Forum is my job

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Posts: 4,989
ation
The difference in track on the rear arms is the brakes. i.e. the disk brake set up is wider, not by much though.

The front wishbones come in two flavours. The shorter one that was fitted to all but the HGT Bravo and the longer one that was fitted to the HGT bravo and the 16v and 20 v coupes(inc turbo's). If you keep your streering rack you will need to use the longer track rod ends from a HGT Bravo.

I'm converting a 1.4 to 20v power at the moment. The easiest thing to do is to remove pretty much everything and replace it with either HGT stuff or coupe parts. That way there's no horrible splicing of looms.

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: szkom] #1025431
23/04/2010 20:38
23/04/2010 20:38

K
kev_sud_qv
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kev_sud_qv
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K



very interested in this thread guys and any other information you can share with me thumb

i have been looking for a new project for some time having finished a full resto on my alfasud last year.
i love turbo-charged cars and have long had the idea of fitting the 20V turbo engine etc into an alfa 145.

this thread will be a very similar thing i guess as the 145 is pretty much identical underneath/structurally to the bravo confused

i figured out that the subframe should be swappable from the coupe to the 145 so that should take care of the engine/gearbox mounting points? also i thought the suspension & brakes would swap over, keep everything in one lump??

the only thing that slightly worries me is the wiring, but is it just a case of the whole loom together with ecu's can be taken from the coupe and fitted in the 145??

sounds easy rotate

any advice would be much appreciated thumb

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1028691
29/04/2010 21:51
29/04/2010 21:51

N
ninja
Unregistered
ninja
Unregistered
N



thanks for the interest,

although my project has taken a bit of a back burner for a while, as i'm waiting for parts, and been a bit busy, i will also be out the country for a while.

there are a couple of 20vt/16vt bravos floating round, and 20vt tipo and a 20vt 147.

as far as im i'm aware the coupe,145,bravo and tipo all share the same chassis (theres a recent thread somewhere) but the best way to find out if something fits is to get the tool kit out smile

If you have any questions just ask, this is a very helpful forum, i should know smile

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1028732
29/04/2010 23:01
29/04/2010 23:01

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted By: ninja
thanks for the interest,

although my project has taken a bit of a back burner for a while, as i'm waiting for parts, and been a bit busy, i will also be out the country for a while.

there are a couple of 20vt/16vt bravos floating round, and 20vt tipo and a 20vt 147.

as far as im i'm aware the coupe,145,bravo and tipo all share the same chassis (theres a recent thread somewhere) but the best way to find out if something fits is to get the tool kit out smile

If you have any questions just ask, this is a very helpful forum, i should know smile

Ninja


thanks cool
i have done a bit more digging and searching and it seems like the 145/bravo are very similar (identical?) in dimensions under the bonnet with the inner wing/chassis section width and also the suspnesion mounting points.
i am guessing it will be a case of using the whole front end of a coupe, engine/gearbox/drive-shafts/hubs/struts/cross-member etc together with the wiring loom & ecu.
so what i will be searching for is either a crash damaged coupe or one that has other issues (darn't mention the "R" word, being a lifelong italian car nut i know how that word stings!) as i don't want to take a coupe off the road that someone else could still enjoy.

this autumn/winter should see the start of the project, hopefully i can start a thraed on the build on here and gain from all you guys knowledge laugh

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1028870
30/04/2010 09:21
30/04/2010 09:21

N
ninja
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ninja
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N



you should need need the cross member (i havnt on the bravo!?)

you will also need ;
steering rack,
ABS pump + sensors,
20vt wheels (to clear the calipers),
Gear linkages (if not already cable, the whole assembly is a straight swap for the bravo),
wishbones (unless the 145 matches the coupe or HGT items),
Coupe ARB wink

its worth taking the rear disc conversion too inc;
handbrake cable,
calipers,
mounts etc (no need for arms or hubs on the bravo, not sure bout 145)
very important little spacer!!

ive taken ignition barrel and keys too, to match ECU

hope that helps smile

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1029014
30/04/2010 13:54
30/04/2010 13:54
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,989
ation
szkom Offline
Club member 2000
szkom  Offline
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Forum is my job

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,989
ation
-

Last edited by szkom; 30/04/2010 13:57. Reason: Wrong information
Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: szkom] #1029017
30/04/2010 13:55
30/04/2010 13:55
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
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Begbie  Offline
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I AM a Coop

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Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
145 uses the same wishbones as the tipo, bravo, so a single lower wishbone


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1029170
30/04/2010 20:45
30/04/2010 20:45

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K





Originally Posted By: ninja
you should need need the cross member (i havnt on the bravo!?)

you will also need ;
steering rack,
ABS pump + sensors,
20vt wheels (to clear the calipers),
Gear linkages (if not already cable, the whole assembly is a straight swap for the bravo),
wishbones (unless the 145 matches the coupe or HGT items),
Coupe ARB wink

its worth taking the rear disc conversion too inc;
handbrake cable,
calipers,
mounts etc (no need for arms or hubs on the bravo, not sure bout 145)
very important little spacer!!

ive taken ignition barrel and keys too, to match ECU

hope that helps smile

Ninja


thanks for the advice cool

will i need the coupe steering rack? thought the 145 one would be ok?
the abs is something else to think about, can i just do away with it all??

ecu and immobilisor/key code system is another issue to get around, but reading on other guys efforts it can be bypassed??

at this stage i'm trying to gather as much info as i can, get my shopping list together. getting a whole coupe for a donor car is the only way to go so all the little bits&bobs that are needed can be gotten hold of, any spare parts/panels etc left over will be made available to forum members on here wink

thanks for the interest & replies so far, nice to be not shot down in flames to start off with laugh

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: Begbie] #1029171
30/04/2010 20:47
30/04/2010 20:47

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted By: Begbie
145 uses the same wishbones as the tipo, bravo, so a single lower wishbone


i plan on using the complete cross-member with the arms/hubs/drive-shafts etc from the coupe so i will know it all goes together. think i'm right in saying that the strut top mounting points on the inner wings are in the same places on the 145 & coupe? also the cross-member will use the same mounting points??

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1029406
01/05/2010 19:02
01/05/2010 19:02

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K



another quick question, do the 20V turbo cars have an lsd as standard?

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1029440
01/05/2010 20:17
01/05/2010 20:17
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Greece, Agrinio
Varypodaros Offline
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Posts: 21
Greece, Agrinio
you mean viscodrive... yeap...

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: Varypodaros] #1031635
05/05/2010 22:28
05/05/2010 22:28

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted By: Varypodaros
you mean viscodrive... yeap...


is that the same as in the lancia dedra turbo 'box? the last one i had drove fantastic out of the bends, pulled hard with no wheel spin, a nice type of limited slip diff, didn't pull you all over the place cool

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1031701
06/05/2010 06:40
06/05/2010 06:40

M
Marco20valveT
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Marco20valveT
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Yes the coupe has an LSD!

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1036321
14/05/2010 20:05
14/05/2010 20:05

K
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
kev_sud_qv
Unregistered
K



i am hoping to start my own thread to get my questions answered but can't start one yet (not enough posts??) so will have to ask on here, sorry for the hijack!!

anyway, i've been thinking about a few things.

my intention of using the 20VT engine is down to 2 reasons, firstly because it will be more of a challenge getting it into the alfa 145 (not too hard i hope) and secondly because i absolutely love the exhaust note of the 5pot engine

anyway, i've been thinking now about the 16VT engine, it does offer a few advantages over the 5pot, slightly more room to fit it and seems to be easier to tune when inevitably plenty of power isn't enough!

is there anything else for or against using either engine combo??

any advice appreciated again guys

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1040466
21/05/2010 11:42
21/05/2010 11:42
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,580
Melbourne, Australia
Scuderia Offline
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Posts: 1,580
Melbourne, Australia
145 hubs and rack ends are different to Fiat models. But you can use either.

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: Scuderia] #1078215
29/07/2010 20:35
29/07/2010 20:35

A
antj3nks
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antj3nks
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A



this is excellent im slowly doing a conversion on my bravo 155 hgt, reading this and seeing pics is really good, as ive never done anythin like this ever, ive just threw myself straight in at the deep end .

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1107179
26/09/2010 13:18
26/09/2010 13:18

N
ninja
Unregistered
ninja
Unregistered
N



i'm working on the rear disc conversion for my project and have come across a potenial issue!?

first off does any have a picture of the rear ABS sensor for the coupe?

with the conversion i can take the drum assembly off, install the caliper mounts and leave the ABS sensor in situe.
the bravo hub has horizontal ABS notches and a long(ish) protruding ABS sensor. the coupe hub has vertical ABS notchs (and will foul the bravo sensor)
i will re-use the bravo hub (because of the coupe hub fouling issue) but when i swap the loom, if the bravo ABS module is not compatible with the coupe ECU, then i will need to swap the ABS module, asensors, and hubs for coupe ones.

turns out the coupe sensors wont work on the bravo module (i tried the front ones)

or if i dont want ABS i could leave it......but i do smile

(this will probaly be easier to understand with pictures, but i dont have any at the moment)

Any comments

Ninja

Re: Bravo 20vt Project Discussion Thread [Re: ] #1107462
27/09/2010 08:30
27/09/2010 08:30

T
TurboJ
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TurboJ
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T



You have four options on the front:

1) Use the bravo driveshafts but they won't fit a coupe gearbox so bravo box it can be but that WILL blow.

2) You can put the coupe driveshafts in the bravo hubs but the sensors won't line up. So you will have coupe gearbox and bravo hubs but NO ABS.

3) Use the coupe hubs, driveshafts and brakes/wheels. Because the driveshafts have a different sensor OD I’m not sure if the bravo ABS module will work that means you may have to fit the coupe ABS brain also.

4) Some crazy custom way making up homemade brackes etc..

I chose option 2. Who need ABS smile

I have no idea about the rear because I’ve never looked at them.

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