After speaking to Paul at competition braking, he has pointed out to me that the design of the front disc's are poorly ventilated on the inside.

i want to know if there is any thing that i could make/ produce to allow more air flow to the inside of the disc?

Has any one done any thing with this before and has any thing been made?

If we can come up with some thing that works then it could help the life of the disc's!

Any comments welcome please!

Thanks

Marco

Forge made some brake cooling ducts for the evo. I wanted to look into making something similar but never got round it

drive slower

I also made some 'air diverting' plates that someone posted on here once. It sits on the wishbones.

I'm not sure if it made any difference..but one side eventually broke off so i just removed the other side.

Nigel I believe was looking into had a rough design for this?

Yes ... Nigel had a design (a couple of years back), but he thought it needed some refining IIRC

any one have any links to this?
i have enough time on my hands now to sort this out and get things moving!

Nigel?? where you??



@ Kelv, what ducts did they make for the evo? have you got a linky or pics??

Yer...ok...thats not going to work...

Here you go Marco..

Evo ducts

I've bought some ducting and some plastic ducts - sure I can cobble something together

Nobby, can you send me some pic's??


i like the forged pic's! looks good mounting them onto the calipers!

question i have is will there be enough flow of air going to the disc with that forged idea?

I've looked at that Forged stuff before ... and have never managed to get beyond the price

your telling me lol thats why i want to make my own stuff!

Indeed, lets face it, this could be designed very easily for what it is, & would cost pennies if you knew where to look.

Here is a picture of the mod we do in France :

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5332/d164862e81576f42f8b6bba.jpg

It's an OE brake "plate" from a Citroen C5 V6. Some of us have tried this on racetracks and it seems to work well.

I haven't fitted anything yet - it's all packed up in the garage waiting for some nice weather and sone spare time....

I bought 2 plastic vents for around £18 each, 2m of 50mm ducting (although I reckon you could use 1m) and some rubber heatshrink joiners.

I looked quite a bit for some or ducts from other cars and there aren't that many on eBay for instance. One thing I did notice was that Porsche 911s have diverted wings that fit onto the wishbones - not cheap though. You can also buy metal ducts that clamp to the back of a caliper like the evo ones but look a lot cruder and not cheap either

Yep just depends how tidy you want it to be. On my Alfa 75, I took the fog lights out, routed some heating ducting and held in place with cable ties. Job done, no more warping

How will this affect winter driving, esp those with performance pads that work better when heated, or would it be best to blank them off during this time?

I believe it was me?
http://www.fiatklubben.nu/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2155&type=picture
and
http://www.fiatklubben.nu/depa/showfile.php?carpic_no=2158&type=picture

Anyway I think that Citroen C5 solution looks a lot better than mine.
Even better still should be venting hoses from the front, which I will install this spring.

Thats the one Per. Thanks

The Citroen one does look promising. Minipit, do you know the part number?

You will need the following Citroen parts :

- 0000482811 : left mounting
- 0000482810 : right mounting
- 0000482731 : left deflector
- 0000482730 : right deflector

Total cost in France : approx. 28 euros = approx. 25 GBP.

Kelvin : Like i advise you in my PM, for an easier installation you will need to cut the upper part of the Citroen mounting.

Here is a pic for you guys :

http://img193.imageshack.us/i/frein2020.jpg/

Hope this helps

Nigel's thread

Mini pit,
do these ducts work?

Reading Nigels thread, I want to known if the pads are wearing at the same time?

hello,

perfect adaptation, no modification, straight bolt on on the coup.
give it a try.
I recommand those ducts.

bye

grr just spooken to the local Citroen dealer and there is a long wait for these to come in...

looks like its a 3 week job.

i cant wait to test these out!!

about those EVO ducts....does anyone has a more detailed drawing of them? or...could someone make a drawing for a pair for 16vt and 20vt? i own a 16vt and you guys have more 20vt's ... i'm asking because i might know someone who would make some out of 0.3mm stainless steel.

If there was a detailed drawing, these would have been made already!

Well a pre made part by a vehicle manufacturer. You should be thankful Marco

Shame it is a Citroen part though

Well looking at all the threads about killing brakes on this forum,they all seem to lead back to the brakes not haveing enough cooling.
Nigel's threads stateing he's warpped disc's whilst beding them in (even if the disc is not warpped but there is an uneven transfer of pad material)just reinforces the fact that the brakes are not cooling enough between stops, even if your leaving the suggested time.
Now i know that nigel is talking about getting a 2 piece kit made up(i am still interested)but this could make the the situation worse traping more heat in the pad and rotors because the aluminium bell is also used so it does not transfer heat to the dampers etc.
So from what nigel said about talking to pagid,the best way to really cool the disc is to get air though the veins,the evo kit looks like the best way to do this.
With adequit cooling we may not have to upgrade to bigger/more expensive discs!
I don't think we can use the template from the evo because they have bigger calipers and the mouting points will be diffrent,but we could steal the basic design.

agreed with that!

just need to get my in gear and see what i can make!!

Well stop chatting on here then and get at it...

I'd be on the GB!

it will have to be on the back burner for now, ive got a heavy weekend coming up...

Really what are you doing...

Alloy bells will offer better cooling, and less chance of warping.

Have a look at your standard disk, the casting shape blocks off 50% of the air flow through the centre of the disk. An alloy belled disk will not have this problem as the disk is bolted to the bell allowing full air flow.

Alloy is also a much better conductor of heat so will cool them much quicker.

hmm so we need to look into making an alloy type to do this!

Lashe's... i think im going out with some mates.

Why you cheeky sod Marco...

Giggady

Marco - my design is already done - its been prototyped - its at Motormech - it just needs fitting and checking for clearance at full steering lock and/or full suspension travel

Its really simple - a small stainless bracket, bolted to the bottom balljoint pinchbolt (and thus it steers with the hub) and a short (200mm?) length of flexible brake ducting, down to another bracket, fastened to the front ARB droplink bottom nut

I have a feeling it will need some tweaking, but it just needs testing

Nigel, you have saved me the ball ache!!

Thak you!!!

interested to see it in swing!!
lets me know how you get on please!

Thanks!!

Sounds very interesting Nigel

I'm due in to Paul's on Monday ... will it be fitted by then, or will I be able to catch a gander?

No - its been on John's table for weeks and weeks - just haven't got round to finishing it

Right then time to hassle Nigel it seems

I've got....
2 of these

2 of these

And a metre of this (well I've got 2 actually so maybe some for sale....)

how are you planning to mount them Nobby?

Not 100% sure yet. Ive got some ally sheet that I was gonna make some mini brackets with BUT my front calipers/discs are different from the standard coupe ones so my solution might differ from Nigels

I was looking underneath a VW GTi MarkV and this is how they cool their brakes and disc.

cooling duct 01

cooling duct 02

I've just ordered a set of these: (thanks MiniPit )
- 0000482811 : left mounting
- 0000482810 : right mounting
- 0000482731 : left deflector
- 0000482730 : right deflector

Cost ~£24 and a couple of days waiting for the parts to arrive.

They'll not be fitted for my day at Silverstone but I'll let people know how I get on when I do get my hands on them

£24? I paid £27

Ahhh ... probably a VAT issue in my price

I must say Citroen's service does seem to be better than Fiat's. They dropped me a text first thing in the morning when the parts arrived. Fiat in the other hand didn't even bother informing when they said they would!

Have you fitted them yet?

I was wondering whether it would be possible to alter the bracket somehow to allow it to fit onto both caliper bolts?

Not fitted them yet Dave. Will get it done soon for next month's track day.

I'm not sure how far off the 2 bolt holes are. If its close enough then maybe abit of filing or drilling could do it..but i'm not even sure if its worth the hassle? I'm sure mounting it on a single point is strong enough. Maybe Minipit could comment on that.

I was hoping that a bit of filing might do the trick.

I was worried that the whole thing might rotate around just a single bolt fixing (particularly with the force placed on it when doing 120+mph on track )?

im going to use a secondary back up mount... Cable ties!!!

just in case it some how comes off or snaps off i will make sure they stay on the car and not in dave_t's bumper when i over take him on a track day one day!!

Also, dave, if your willing to try some thing out, ive whipped 2 cooling ducts up with pipes going to them..
would you be willing to test them friday?

they are quick realise and really easy to fit!!

i managed to put them on and off with in 5mins per side!

I'm more than happy to try them out, Marco

I've just forked out for a new set of discs ready for Friday (after wrecking my last set of DBAs), and wanted to try to prevent these being wrecked as well.

I was therefore hoping to be able to fit the Citroen air deflectors before Friday, but won't have the parts before then.

Hence anything that you have to hand that might help will be great And I'll make sure that your cooling set-up gets a proper test on the track

i dont doubt that mate!

right i will make final tweeks over the next few days and bring them with me!

Also i will get there early to fit them while your in the drivers breifing!!

(text me to remind me to bring them mate or i may forget!
and if they work and work well, you can have them!

You have any pics of that mount Marco?
I think I'll go for a mount + hose to the front.
I'm not sure wether the Citroen piece will catch any air on my Coupe, I suspect it´s too low.

the citroen ones should fit well!!

i think it would make no difference if its lower or not!?

just the draft under the car will be funneled into the vent going to the disc!

My concern is that the funnel would sit above the draft..?
I.e. would you see it at all in a front view?

It seems my prototype has disappeared

John doesn't work at Motormech any more, and when they tidied up the exhaust manufacturing area, it would appear that the ducts and the hosing have been placed "somewhere safe"

IMHO the best solution will be something like the EVO idea - a single fabrication, bolted to the caliper mounts, with the air directed into the small gap between the caliper body and the hub (which is just perfect for getting air into the centre of the disc)

It needs to be able to clear the suspension wishbone on full steering lock AND full suspension compression and extension

Its not a hard job, it just needs someone with some fabrication skills and a standard-wheeled car

I feel there's something possibly political or something or something here, but DAMN, I was hoping to get a Proccy-style exhaust from MM...

Keeping an eye on these cooling solutions carefully.

Motormech will still build you an exhaust, but it will be Paul that builds it, rather than John

Will MM still be able to make a full 3 inch exhaust ?

yes

this might help some people, this is what the skyline boys do

http://www.skylineowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72825&page=5

Just out of interest has anybody tried fitting their grooved brake discs round the opposite way to see if there is any improvement in cooling?

Usually people refer to the direction where the top edge of the groove contacts the pads first as the "aggressive" fit,and I'm assuming that most people who fit the discs in that direction would be using their Coupé on the track. The thing is,surely that direction would be spiralling the hot gases inward and therefore heating up the hub and consequently the disc too.

If they were fitted the opposite way with the bottom edge of the groove contacting the pads first then I would have thought the hot gasses would then be pushed outwards away from the discs and keeping them cool .

Baz

Baz, mines fitted the 'aggressive' way. To be honest, I don't think it makes much difference in terms of cooling. At the most, its abit more agressive in deglazing the pads?

Some discs specify the direction in which they should be fitted as the vents are directional. If the vents are straight, it really makes no difference which way round you fit them.

I've just fitted these Citroen parts to my Coupe, and will see if they help (or not) at Castle Combe on Friday

I've fitted the Citroen bits and have tried them on the track. Clearance is spot on and they work very well! Not sure if its also something to do with the new DBA discs I was running but it certainly didn't fade at all

left flap! right flap!

Old thread but..

left vent!

left intake!

right intake!

left wheelarch outlet!

You have been busy per!
In the future I am planning on getting the auto ds vented arches and cutting a whole in the inner plastic arch to try and create a pressure difference to pull the warm air out.

Marco needs to make his car to before he has to worry about him stopping.

I use the pug 206 brake ducts on mine and Dazs and crazylegs coupes.

Hmm, first pic got lost. Here it is + one more:

left vent!

vent hose going into the right side