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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: neil_r]
#1142521
10/12/2010 12:40
10/12/2010 12:40
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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I didn't mean your accident, as in you personally, I meant it to any person that brakes hard in snowy or icy conditions, particularly when cornering, or drives in a generally stupid way.
Any braking when cornering, but particularly hard braking, is a bad way of driving even on bone dry roads. In the wet, or worse in snowy/icy conditions, it is positively dangerous. End of.
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: ]
#1142531
10/12/2010 12:57
10/12/2010 12:57
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581 London
MrCooper
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581
London
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group5lancia, I don't know, nice puctuation and then letting yourself down by [mistakenly] slating a long standing and helpful forum member. Tsk tsk!
Ex Grigio Moon 20VT Plus Ex 350Z Now Aston Martin Vantage
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: MrCooper]
#1142547
10/12/2010 13:14
10/12/2010 13:14
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia, I don't know, nice puctuation and then letting yourself down by [mistakenly] slating a long standing and helpful forum member. Tsk tsk! My appologies if that is what you also read into my post, but it was not my intention; I can't have made myself clear enough. I was slating bad/unsafe driving in general, particularly in winter conditions. I meant no slur to safe drivers and specifically not to any individual on this forum.
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: MrCooper]
#1142554
10/12/2010 13:25
10/12/2010 13:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553 Berlin
barnacle
OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
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slating a long standing and helpful forum member. Tsk tsk! Who, me? I don't feel slated. Just a polite discussion. Oh, wait, you said 'helpful'... must have meant someone else. A car with the rear wheels locked is *unconditionally* unstable. Sooner or later the back wheels will be leading the way. The discussion is whether this is a likely scenario... Since I can afford to fit decent snow tyres on each corner, it seems a reasonable thing to do. That way I get the best grip at both ends. I don't generally drive like a loon; in thirty years of driving to Scotland midwinter, usually with normal tyres, the only time I ever got stuck was the last hundred yards trying to get up my sister's drive last year - 1 in 3, eight inches of snow, and a Cupra which required the TCS turning off to let the wheels go around at all. That was *after* the six hundred mile drive at -15C. And as Lancia says: don't brake on corners. Do it on the straight. Slow in, fast out...
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1142645
10/12/2010 16:31
10/12/2010 16:31
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869 Germany
neil_r
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 869
Germany
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If it was possible to do everything by the book, there would be no accidents. We have to remember that even good drivers may become involved because of somebody else's mistake. A quote from this weeks Telegraph: "Even after last winter's lessons, we still see drivers over-revving their engines and spinning their wheels on icy surfaces, or driving too close to the car ahead, or failing to anticipate the need to slow down and hitting the brakes too suddenly and too hard." ... "Even if you can drive well in the snow, not everyone else can." You may have to stop half-way around a bend because someone proving that he has less sense or skill than you is blocking the road. That is when you will be please you did not skimp on those other two winter tyres. Anyway, I guess there are two camps here. I can live with that
1997 20V 2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR 2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD 2018 Mazda2 GT
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: neil_r]
#1142706
10/12/2010 19:28
10/12/2010 19:28
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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You may have to stop half-way around a bend because someone proving that he has less sense or skill than you is blocking the road. That is when you will be please you did not skimp on those other two winter tyres. Living in the countryside, as I do, I drive around every blind corner expecting the road to be blocked and drive accordingly, whatever the conditions. Blocked where I live can mean a tractor and trailer taking up all the road, an idiot in a 4 x 4 or anything from a white van to an artic driving down the middle coming the other way, or a stationary car stuck in snow halfway round a blind corner as you suggest. The only way to avoid an accident is to be driving slow enough to stop, whatever the conditions and whatever your tyres. If you can't stop in time, you are driving too fast for the conditions/level of grip. Simples. In my experience, driving with anticipation or what the police and advanced motoring instructors call 'defensive driving' is what avoids accidents - not tyres or tyres alone. To anyone that feels safer with four winter tyres, I would be the last person to tell them not to. It's a free choice.
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: ]
#1142719
10/12/2010 20:17
10/12/2010 20:17
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581 London
MrCooper
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581
London
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In my experience, driving with anticipation or what the police and advanced motoring instructors call 'defensive driving' is what avoids accidents - not tyres or tyres alone.
Be able to "stop in the distance you can see to be clear". It's that straightforward, or difficult, depending on what you take from it.
Ex Grigio Moon 20VT Plus Ex 350Z Now Aston Martin Vantage
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1142727
10/12/2010 21:05
10/12/2010 21:05
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32,122 Cumbria
stan
Dr. Frankenstan
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Dr. Frankenstan
Forum Demigod
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32,122
Cumbria
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I'm conscious that we're all furiously agreeing with each other here...
Hey! If you're looking for an argument, Lancastrians are nicer people...... <waves from the safety of being beyond visual range>
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1142731
10/12/2010 21:10
10/12/2010 21:10
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581 London
MrCooper
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,581
London
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You are quite right. Could not agree more.
Ex Grigio Moon 20VT Plus Ex 350Z Now Aston Martin Vantage
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: MrCooper]
#1142748
10/12/2010 22:16
10/12/2010 22:16
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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Going back to the point about remoulds there is an interesting point in evo this month about them that I had never considered - because they are remoulds the carcasses can be from very different tyres so, despite the visible branding and tread pattern, you could could have very different tyres on the same axle. I haven't used remoulds for many years (I once wore a set of remould crossplies out on a mini in less than 3000 miles) so not saying they are good or bad, just an interesting perspective. One other point, winter tyres on the front, summer tyres on the back, snow, handbrake, fun
Andy
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: andyps]
#1142755
10/12/2010 22:39
10/12/2010 22:39
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084 Pontypandy
mr_tickle
Competition Level
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Competition Level
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084
Pontypandy
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I can't be bothered will all this messing around with winterising the car malarchy. If the weather is bad I take the winter car instead: an old golf diesel with skinny tyres. ultra reliable and pulls throught the snow no problem. No frozen locks, doors, fuel caps, handbrakes and the thermostat never fails
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: barnacle]
#1142781
11/12/2010 00:43
11/12/2010 00:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,411 Lightwater, Surrey
DaveG
Club Treasurer Member 311
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Club Treasurer Member 311
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,411
Lightwater, Surrey
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"arctic" diesel is typically produced with a pour point of -15°C, but the more critical test is CFPP (cold filter plugging point) but that can be improved with additives. Typical summer/europe spec is 0°C pour point.
1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus 1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: andyps]
#1142787
11/12/2010 01:04
11/12/2010 01:04
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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group5lancia
Unregistered
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Going back to the point about remoulds there is an interesting point in evo this month about them that I had never considered - because they are remoulds the carcasses can be from very different tyres so, despite the visible branding and tread pattern, you could could have very different tyres on the same axle. I can't be sure (you can check with Maxsport) but I believe they only use Michelin carcases and each type of tyre uses only one carcass type. I wouldn't trust imported remoulds, but a remould from a known British manufacturer with a long and good reputation in the business should be ok. I've certainly used them in motorsport with never a failure, despite some pretty rough treatement. Companies which sell them, like Ears and Demon Thieves, have business reputations to maintain too, and if they sold rubbish their names could be severely tarnished. A clue to a badly made tyre, or a potentially damaged carcass, is if it won't balance easily; I have had brand new budget tyres (i.e. not remoulds but not mainstream brands either) that have taken more lead to balance than any Maxsport I have used over the years.
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: stan]
#1142816
11/12/2010 08:40
11/12/2010 08:40
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643 Watford
MarioCirillo
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
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Well that doesnt make sense!! Even if it reduces the chances of an accident by 1% why on earth would they charge more BAH! Money Makers
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: stan]
#1142824
11/12/2010 08:50
11/12/2010 08:50
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643 Watford
MarioCirillo
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
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Whats the implications of using winter tyres on dry tarmac?
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: stan]
#1142836
11/12/2010 10:09
11/12/2010 10:09
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DaveM
Unregistered
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DaveM
Unregistered
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Is the 3-4mm the snow+ice wear bar? I would imagine they are still legal in this country (but perhaps not in countries mandating winter tyres).
Bit pointless, I know winter tyres benefit you on cold wet roads but the major bonus for me is being a bit more controlled on snow+ice.
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: Ryan20VT]
#1142876
11/12/2010 12:35
11/12/2010 12:35
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32,122 Cumbria
stan
Dr. Frankenstan
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Dr. Frankenstan
Forum Demigod
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32,122
Cumbria
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Apparently they have revised their view now, there should be no penalty. Quite right too!! I suspect it's either sensationalist reporting or a storm in a teacup, as usual. The BBC are rapidly confirming their status as the "Red Top Tabloid" of the internet!
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Re: Winter tyres for the 20vt
[Re: ]
#1142970
11/12/2010 19:18
11/12/2010 19:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301 Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps
My job on the forum
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My job on the forum
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,301
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
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Going back to the point about remoulds there is an interesting point in evo this month about them that I had never considered - because they are remoulds the carcasses can be from very different tyres so, despite the visible branding and tread pattern, you could could have very different tyres on the same axle. I can't be sure (you can check with Maxsport) but I believe they only use Michelin carcases and each type of tyre uses only one carcass type. I wouldn't trust imported remoulds, but a remould from a known British manufacturer with a long and good reputation in the business should be ok. I've certainly used them in motorsport with never a failure, despite some pretty rough treatement. Companies which sell them, like Ears and Demon Thieves, have business reputations to maintain too, and if they sold rubbish their names could be severely tarnished. A clue to a badly made tyre, or a potentially damaged carcass, is if it won't balance easily; I have had brand new budget tyres (i.e. not remoulds but not mainstream brands either) that have taken more lead to balance than any Maxsport I have used over the years. You could well be right in all you say about the motorsport remoulds - I was just quoting evo magazine who are usually well informed. In terms of tread depth, certainly for my wife's Berlingo I will probably just use them on the back during the summer once they have worn down to 3-4mm, it doesn't get cornered hard and we might as well get the use out of them! The SMMT agreed with insurance companies that there would be no loading of premiums for fitting winter tyres.
Andy
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