NP, mate.

It will be reset to what Flea set them at. Over time the ecu 'adjusts' itself. Unplugging the ecu would reset any adjustments made due to, say, a faulty lambda sensor. It doubt it's that, but it's easy to rule out.

As for the fuel pump earth. That's weird, how did the pump run if one side of the wiring wasn't connected?! If the electrical current was previously finding it's way to earth via some other dodgy means, now that it has a proper earth that would make huge difference to the fuel flow. If the car was mapped with the dodgy wiring, the fuel map will now be junk.

Still do all the other checks I mentioned, but bear that in mind.

update.....!

well car still won't run/idle on it own although everything seems to have been checked and re checked!

car still seems to be running stupidly rich on idle... The only thing that has yet tobe checked/changed is the crank sensor?
would this being faulty cause the car the run rich on idle and also if it was faulty explain why car won't start with cam sensor connected??

HELP!

nick

is there a 'widget' or alike for the 16vt that i could use to find out wher my fault is ?

nick

yes all you need is some cables and barnacles startreck software probably in the faq for the widget

Nick, in response to your PM (and please note I've not been across the full thread in detail) here's a few thoughts...

First, the widget or startrek software will tell you if there are faulty sensors, or things like software learning modes at their limits, and will give you running data once it's started.

Obviously with an engine rebuild, it's hard to be sure something hasn't been put back together incorrectly, but it looks as if you've done all the obvious checks.

Rich at low revs, poor starting, and failure to idle suggests one of two things - either more fuel is arriving than the ECU is sending, or the ECU thinks there's more air arriving than really is.

If there's a leak in the air system (post throttle) then it would normally go lean as it sucks air in against manifold vacuum - though it *could* be a blocked MAP sensor pipe. Or, it could be a MAP sensor which is disconnected from the pipe in which case it would think the air is too high pressure at idle, but lean on boost. Or a dead or dodgy MAP sensor... that last will show on startrek as you can monitor the air pressure. Should be ~1000mb ignition on engine off, ~3-400 at idle, up to ~2100 on boost.

Alternatively, assuming that the engine was correctly mapped prior to the rebuild with the current injectors and fuel pressure regulator, then it's possible that one injector has failed in the stuck open position. Startrek can't tell you anything about that on a 16; the ECU doesn't monitor the injectors. You *may* be able to get a stethoscope in there to confirm that all four are ticking.

Hi Nick, reading this, have you connected the earth again??

have you tried running it with it disconnected and connected?

with the earth connected it will increase the flow massivley!!
i think you need to go with Neil on this and get the star trek system on to it and see what problems there are...

wild one...not sre if this is going to help in ANY way...but have to tried putting the standard chip back in to see if it runs any better?

Not if he's got uprated injectors!

so would fuel pump still work even if it wasn't earthed AT ALL.... If so there is a very good chance if was probably mapped with no earth.... And it is definitely earthed at the mo!

in response to barnacle.... Thanks for your input buddy.... Regarding injectors possibly sticking open..... As all 4 plugs get sooted up extremely quickly that would have to mean all 4 injectors were ALL sticking.... Right... Which i would say is unlikely!?

if it turns out fuel pump will work without an earth then i'll go and disconnect it this afternoon and report back!

nick

injectors are 630's as apposed to standard 384's.... Alittle bigger....

sorry...im trying to pack for holiday and im losing the plot a bit (Barnacle you know what i mean)

try the earth mate, i hope it stops running so rich!

The fuel pump uses - from memory - a switched earth back through the cut-off switch. <hurries off to check circuit diagram>

Ah, my mistake - positive supply is switched, but the earth passes back through the inertial cut-off switch. You don't want to be bypassing that. If that wire's not connected, the pump won't run.

With regard to the injectors - it's possible, since the injectors are all in the same plenum, that excess fuel from one is distributing to the next sucking cylinder once the guilty cylinder closes the inlet valve. You might perhaps though expect the adjacent cylinders to be more affected than the most remote.

Hi Nick. I don't think I mentioned it to you but I asked the garage to test a few things on the MAP sensor for the same reason that Barnacle mentioned. I'll give you a shout when the get back to me with the results.

I might have to give them a bit of a kick up the bum tomorrow if they don't get back to me by the end of the day!

good idea.... They seem like they need tobe BOOTED into action!

nick

hi peeps...
tried chip today.... car starts alot quicker than before though the same problems remain.... won't idle... only starts with cam sensor disconnected..... once started, if cam sensor is reconnected when running car cuts out immediately!

tested map sensor by checking voltage while sucking on hose and Voltage dropped from 1.8 down to 1.2..... does this sound about right???? i'm hoping not.... lol!

what else can be causing what seems tobe massive over fueling on idle?

nick

Mate, this is dragging on now, you must be getting well hissed off!
Cant you just go and leave it with Rog at Poweritalia or Flea at FC Performance for a few weeks and let them sort it?

Something isnt right somewhere, obviously, and I know you know that, but im sorry I cant help directly, just an idea above.

Anyhow, good luck, let us know when it is up and running, maybe with a vid too.

That does sound right, as when you go onto boost, the voltage will go up, but i have no idea if the value is correct for doing so

someone has advised me to check the right connectors are on the right sensors.... I.e cam sensor and say idle control valve as they have same connectors?

also would a dodgy lamda sensor cause the problems i'm having?

nick

Map sensor has a range of about 0.5 to 4.5 volts across 0-2.4 bar, from comparison with standard Motorola types

Just PM'd you back. No the lambda sensor won't be the cause of your problems.

update....

finally got another garage to have a look at it today, been a nightmare though as i've had to wait to get the permission of the guy who rebuilt the engine to let someone else get the cam cover off and 'have a look'... (sounds strange, i know but i really can't be arsed to explain!)

so we've took cam cover off, then they manualy turned the engine until piston 1 was at the very top..... By the way this means foooook all to me, but they seem to think the cams DO look out!
so now gotta wait for engine builder to come over, confirm they ARE out then sort it!
they did show me why they thought they looked out by showing me the position of no.1 lobe on both shafts when the piston was at the top! But its all a little mind blowing to me!!

so it looks like your timing is out!

do you not have C&B cams in this?
(i have heard they are a b*tch to time up)

if its a case of a mis-timed engine it should be an easy fix!

fingers crossed for you mate!

Tanc Barret are out your way, there good with the lancia Delta's maybe worth asking them.

Erm, if you like junk yards. For real advice - go over to Neil Smith at NJS in Pershore, he will set you straight, and never ever beats around the bush.http://www.njsalfaromeo.co.uk/

tanc barrett is literally 2-3 miles from me and yes it does look like a junk yard.... Apparently knows his stuff though...... I mentioned earlier in the thread that he'd been to the garage while my engine was running rough and he said straight away it was cam timing!

Apparently the no.1 lobes are meant to be at the same angle (but mirror image) at TDC, and mine aren't?!

nick

so Nick, why not just bite the bulit and get some one to time the engine up?

all this wasted time and money when its a case of timing...

I had the same problem as you with the cam sensor Nick, it was the plugs to the coils being the wrong way round. It would only run with the cam sensor unplugged, I swapped the coil plugs (from the loom) round and the problem was solved. Youve probably also got a 4k RPM limiter in place as well, but sounds like you havent made 4k rpm yet! Hope this helps.

Not sure if this helps, but this was from when GC set my head up, can't quite work out from these photo's if the cams have been set at TDC

Thier not set at TDC Begbie, I thought I had a nice photo of a pair of cams fitted up but can't find it unfortunatly.

Why the hell do you need permision to take off your OWN cam cover ??

because i'd been warned on more than one occasion that if anything todo with timing was tampered with by anyone other than the engine builder my guarantee on the engine would be invalid....!
anyways the position the cams are in if we look at it like the points of the cams are hands on clock are: inlet points to 7-8 mins..... Therfore the exhaust cam should point to 52-53 mins... But its more like 48-49....

hope this makes sense... Lol

nick

They don't always have to be perfectly symetrical (you can't tell much just by looking anyway), it depends on the FL timing from the cam manufacture some are 110/115 some are 108/108 etc. Ask your engine builder what it should be, if he does'nt know then something is wrong !

Have you done compression checks ? I know it's a new engine but you should see some similarity between pots