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Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157234
16/01/2011 15:05
16/01/2011 15:05
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Stichl Offline
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Hi Carlos,

can you explain the screw-type system to me???
Does this mean, you took big screws and you tapped the block to get it into it???
What screws did you take?!
Afterwards you re-bored the block?!
Thank you
Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: Stichl] #1157250
16/01/2011 15:56
16/01/2011 15:56

C
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
C



Hi Juergen,

1-can you explain the screw-type system to me???
I do not remember now, but if you want to know I ask my mechanic...no prblem for me...

2-Does this mean, you took big screws and you tapped the block to get it into it???
yes, because as they come under pressure, and with screw threads to the place where the working piston,because it is only in that area we have the pressures and is also where they usually crack,no danger where the piston works,if I remember the bolt has more or less from 1.5 to 2cm in compliance,I can also confirm later if you want...

3-What screws did you take?!
my mechanic did the steel bolts and measure,because in some places the width of the screw is different...

4-Afterwards you re-bored the block?!
yes,because after making the holes for the bolts, the cylinder walls are a little warped,and so I bought the pistons 83.60mm (original is 83.00mm), because I had to extend the walls of block,and so was 100% right and no problems..


thanks...

Carlos


Last edited by carlos_vieira; 16/01/2011 15:58.
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157329
16/01/2011 18:51
16/01/2011 18:51

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Quote
As per Barbs previous comments, the piston deck / clearance was odd
Let me be more exact then.
The clearance between the piston crown and block face is the area of concern. This area is critical for the combustion process.
Has anyone more info regarding this piston/block setup i.e measurements...

Sticl- what boost are you running on your 2.4?

Thx

Last edited by Barbz; 16/01/2011 18:51.
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157335
16/01/2011 19:22
16/01/2011 19:22

C
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
C



Hi Barbz...


Originally Posted by Barbz
[quote]
The clearance between the piston crown and block face is the area of concern. This area is critical for the combustion process.


it was there that I reinforced my engine block

cheers

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157427
16/01/2011 21:58
16/01/2011 21:58

T
tricky
Unregistered
tricky
Unregistered
T



Are you saying a lack of squish might have caused this ?

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157438
16/01/2011 22:14
16/01/2011 22:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Stichl Offline
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
@carlos: could you please ask your mechanic because of the screws he took?! This would be very interesting.
Please do not forget to drill the oil channel for the turbocharger.

@Barbz: I realized 565HP with 1,55bar of boost. Now I want to reach 650HP with about 1,7 - 1,8bar...

Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157458
16/01/2011 22:56
16/01/2011 22:56

1
1NRO
Unregistered
1NRO
Unregistered
1



It will if it is the catalyst for det.

Originally Posted by tricky
Are you saying a lack of squish might have caused this ?

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157605
17/01/2011 11:05
17/01/2011 11:05

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



1NRO-Correct and thank you.
To expand, unusually high combustion temps/pressures as gases unable to escape, leading to fatigue.

Looks like the squish/quench on this setup is non existent which has had the opposite effect in the quest for power. That explains why they ran so much boost to make the figures, 2.53bar according to the graph.

The distance from the top ring to the block face is huge, around 12mm where as on a std engine its around 6mm.

Thanks

Last edited by Barbz; 17/01/2011 11:06.
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157606
17/01/2011 11:13
17/01/2011 11:13
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,744
Zele, Belgium
Kayjey Online yippee
Club Member #10
Kayjey  Online Yippee
Club Member #10
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,744
Zele, Belgium
So compression something like 1 : 5? Or am I mixing things up? Trying to understand...


- Kayjey -

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: Kayjey] #1157688
17/01/2011 14:04
17/01/2011 14:04

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B




In regards to figures and measurements, MWT may furnish them upon request.

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: Stichl] #1157828
17/01/2011 18:42
17/01/2011 18:42

C
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
carlos_vieira
Unregistered
C



Originally Posted by Stichl
@carlos: could you please ask your mechanic because of the screws he took?! This would be very interesting.




Juergen


Hi Juergen,

no problem,I"ll talk to him and then tell you something ok...

Originally Posted by Stichl
@Please do not forget to drill the oil channel for the turbocharger.


I've been thinking about it,and I think it is better get some oil to the tube that goes to the radiator olio,is relatively near the turbo and so no need to drill the block...is there any problem with that?or is it better to drill the block?
guys tell me your opinion... tongue

cheers..

Carlos Vieira

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157904
17/01/2011 21:13
17/01/2011 21:13

T
tricky
Unregistered
tricky
Unregistered
T



At least 7mm piston to head then, that is mahoosive. Do you think they did that to try and lower the CR ? If so a properly thought out build wouldn't really need the block gaurd.

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157923
17/01/2011 22:06
17/01/2011 22:06

1
1NRO
Unregistered
1NRO
Unregistered
1



Maybe they were panicing about rod length and played it on the safe side laugh

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1157969
17/01/2011 22:45
17/01/2011 22:45

B
Barbz
Unregistered
Barbz
Unregistered
B



Note the flat topped piston design also, bizzare for a turbo setup which are normally dished for desired compression ratio.

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1158078
18/01/2011 08:45
18/01/2011 08:45
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Stichl Offline
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
One last note from my side to this topic:
Please have a look to the 16VT head - it is much better in this area, because it has the brace, we would need for our 20VT.
Therefore the 16VT block just for itself can do much more power than the 20VT block.
Juergen


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1158081
18/01/2011 08:52
18/01/2011 08:52
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Stichl Offline
Making a profit
Stichl  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Germany
Thank you - this would be fine.
Regarding oil:
I cannot remember the oil circuit completely - could it be that in your drill- position the oil is already polluted? Or is it directly after the filter... (I cannot remember)
Important is to choose a oil supply which is clean (after filter) and has the desired pressure...
Pressure should be no problem, but is the oil clean there?!

Juergen

Originally Posted by carlos_vieira
Originally Posted by Stichl
@carlos: could you please ask your mechanic because of the screws he took?! This would be very interesting.




Juergen


Hi Juergen,

no problem,I"ll talk to him and then tell you something ok...

Originally Posted by Stichl
@Please do not forget to drill the oil channel for the turbocharger.


I've been thinking about it,and I think it is better get some oil to the tube that goes to the radiator olio,is relatively near the turbo and so no need to drill the block...is there any problem with that?or is it better to drill the block?
guys tell me your opinion... tongue

cheers..

Carlos Vieira


20VT coupegrale 4x4
Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: Stichl] #1158085
18/01/2011 09:25
18/01/2011 09:25

1
1NRO
Unregistered
1NRO
Unregistered
1



Ahhhh, the good old 16v block, strong as an ox :-)

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1158469
18/01/2011 19:50
18/01/2011 19:50

T
tricky
Unregistered
tricky
Unregistered
T



Just for a comparison

click to enlarge

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1450203
27/09/2013 08:57
27/09/2013 08:57
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
Czech republic
Honza Offline
Making a profit
Honza  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
Czech republic
I´ve just found similar crack in TDC in my stilo 1.8 16v (only mods AR 2L TS camshafts and 2l TS GTV manifold + gp. A exhaust)

it seems to be common issue of these "open deck" blocks...

so new 2ltr bottom end in 1.8 will have these supports shown on page #1 to prevent this....


Last edited by Honza; 27/09/2013 09:10.

20 years with yellow 2.0 16v NA
22 years with black SEDICIVALVOLE

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1510031
01/10/2014 15:05
01/10/2014 15:05

J
Jopa_zgd
Unregistered
Jopa_zgd
Unregistered
J



sorry for typing in old thread smile

Has anyone tried Darton sleeves? I'm rebuilding my engine and in worry that with block guard rebore is needed as Stichl wrote. My block is 83mm so I have to buy new block to do this and in thinking about Dartons smile

Re: .:Block Guard! [Re: ] #1510047
01/10/2014 18:23
01/10/2014 18:23

J
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
johnnybravoturbo
Unregistered
J



I used block guards on my old block.

This current one was sent off to the USA and sleeved.
Cost £1500 but guaranteed for 3 bar of boost and 1200 whp.

Coped well with a boost spike of 2.5 bar when my wastegate stuck shut.

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