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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1185751
15/03/2011 10:26
15/03/2011 10:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706 Gone
Jimbo
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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Coilovers, there's another myth!
A coilover doesn't offer you anything a well selected spring and damper can. The only advantage of a coilover and it is the only advantage, is the selection of springs available. Great if you're building a track car, not great for a road car! Trust me, I've been down this road, buy a good quality spring like Eibach and a good damper like OSRAV, someone has already done all the work and selected the best spring rate and damping rates for you, all you need to do is fit them and smile.
A lower brace is the same as a top brace, it just keeps the geometry more accurate when the suspension is under load, will work better if you have uprated bushes in your suspension, not as good with standard bushes as these will still give movement.
As for dialing out "a lot" of understeer, again, is that a placebo effect? You've spent £100 so you want to feel something? Not having a go here, I have a strut brace too but I'm unsure as to how much it actually adds to the chassis?
A rear ARB is a good option for reducing understeer, well worth the money but stick to a sensible sized one, the larger one is a PITA to fit.
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1185783
15/03/2011 11:18
15/03/2011 11:18
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057 Southsea
Gunzi
Club member 189, Former Club President
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Club member 189, Former Club President
Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,057
Southsea
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I'm certainly not the only person who felt a difference with the strut braces fitted. 1 link of many. Jimbo you are welcome to come and try my car with and without the braces (i'll do the fitting) and then you can decide whether it's the placebo effect. I certainly don't think that it is.
Last edited by Gunzi; 15/03/2011 11:19. Reason: iPhone spelling
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1185788
15/03/2011 11:25
15/03/2011 11:25
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295 Sandhurst
Begbie
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,295
Sandhurst
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The only advantage of a coilover and it is the only advantage, is the selection of springs available. Well, not quite. You also have adjustable ride hide as well, the unit is thinner, so if you like fitting big / wide wheels, you have better chance of not fouling on the shock absorber, majority of coilovers allow you to adjust the camber without the need for a camber bolt. </pedantic finished>
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1185855
15/03/2011 13:22
15/03/2011 13:22
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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Another reason i went for the gaz setup is i can run std ride height but with up-rated springs and dampers,this will not appeal to everyone,but i cant live with a lowerd car and a lower brace.
I agree with Jimbo,for 90% of people Osrav's with Eibach's or if you want the ride height and better ride Osrav's and standard spring's is the way to go!
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1185983
15/03/2011 16:14
15/03/2011 16:14
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Duffy
Unregistered
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Duffy
Unregistered
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well finally have my car back after its 2nd rebuild, during the rebuild the garage chose to remove the strut brace, dunno why? anyway i'm now of the thinking that i prefer the way it drives without the brace?? i wouldn't say it handles BETTER... But Nicer! still handles well as i have adjustable konis all round, not pushing it though as i'm still running in but i've been carrying enough speed into islands to notice the change in handling!
what i'm trying to assertane is, is it possible for my car to handle as well without the brace, or is it "guaranteed" to handle better with it applied?? If so it'll go back on!
nick Burn the heretic!!!!! Seriously the shell does flex (Try and open/close your doors when the cars jacked up) the strut braces definitely add to the rigidity of the whole shell, so for me they are well worthwile.
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: Begbie]
#1186000
15/03/2011 16:32
15/03/2011 16:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706 Gone
Jimbo
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,706
Gone
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The only advantage of a coilover and it is the only advantage, is the selection of springs available. Well, not quite. You also have adjustable ride hide as well, the unit is thinner, so if you like fitting big / wide wheels, you have better chance of not fouling on the shock absorber, majority of coilovers allow you to adjust the camber without the need for a camber bolt. </pedantic finished> The coilover damper is the same diameter as a standard fiat damper, the spring is a smaller diameter yes I agree but the wheel isn't sat next to the spring on a lowered coupe, the lower spring platform is usually above the wheel so tyre width is still limited by the damper. Some coilovers come with slotted hub mountings to adjust camber, I had to ask for it on the leda's but it's still not an easy job to set the camber accurately. Ride height is adjustable but how many time have I adjusted it in the past 4 years, I think about once if I'm honest. As I said, it's a myth that coilovers are better for handling, you'll get just as good a result out of a set of OSRAVs and some Eibachs.
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: Jimbo]
#1186019
15/03/2011 17:10
15/03/2011 17:10
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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as for the braces, having gone from a standard 20vt with no brace to my current set-up with upper brace, lower brace, dedra arb and rear 22mm whiteline arb, this car handles extremely well in my opinion. belting around donington it felt very planted and stable, and the weakpoint was the tyres - i never felt that understeer was much of an issue, maybe i wasn't trying hard enough
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: nick_d]
#1186074
15/03/2011 18:55
15/03/2011 18:55
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jonone
Unregistered
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jonone
Unregistered
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but what is a coupe more prone to..... Under or over steer understeer! I have stiffer springs on the rear than the front as well as a rear arb!
Last edited by jonone; 15/03/2011 18:58. Reason: jimbo got there first!
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Re: Better ride/handling without strut brace??
[Re: Jimbo]
#1186079
15/03/2011 19:04
15/03/2011 19:04
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555 Bulgaria
Ferrarist
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 555
Bulgaria
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reduce flex in the two suspension towers so possibly keeping the geometry more accurate, but honestly, how much do they flex in the first place?
Maybe someone will be curious to know that Coup engine&gearbox combo weights same as Alfa 156 2.5 V6 engine......i'd measured the distance between this two suspension towers before remove the engine, and car on the ground.......then removed engine and gearbox for engine swap.....car was jacked up under the front subframe....measured again......almost 4mm difference....
20VT - Alfa 156 2.0 - Alfa 156 Mid-Engined RWD - Locost 20VT
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