I met a guy at the South East meet today who is running a GT2871R on stock internals on a car with 155k miles on.

He had the car mapped by Flea and it produces around 420bhp and 350lbs/ft of torque.

He started it up and revved it a few times leaving an oily trail behind on the ground upon which he said, 'it's just water'. When we left there about an hour later, the 'water' trail was still very visible.

How long do you reckon his engine will last??

I saw a car with a similar oil spray from the exhaust at Bristol automoto last year, the turbo failed shortly afterwards.

My mate said he bets £10 the guy doesn't make it home!

Was this a blue Coupe?

Sure was, with the blue cobra seats. Not in the best of condition, but the guy was very happy with his power.

Sounds a bit iffy to me.

Well I can't verify the power, but it is certainly around 400bhp running 1.4bar on a GT2871R 0.86.

I should add that I also mapped this car 20 months ago with a GT28RS 0.86, and it was running 380bhp as tested on my dyno. The previous owner drove the car very HARD from what I am told!

Anyway, he knows it may not last too long, but then again it has survived the best part of two years on some very high power and hard driving, so we shall continue to push the boundaries! I have to say he's not the only one doing this either, and not just Coupes. A perfect map goes a long, long way to keeping an engine happy...

Wow....
Standard internals!!

Impressive.

Impressive indeed, certainly maxing out his Gt28RS and his internals lol ... Good old fiat engines keep plodding along haha

I hope mine makes more than that now with forged internals lol ... Flea to the rescue soon i hope

So what you're saying Flea is... I should get an even bigger turbo and make even more power on my stock internals as I hardly ever drive my car hard, and it's in way better nick with less mileage than this coupe is??

Thanks!!

Oh by the way, shameless plug there.

X

We have a Volvo S40 1.9T here, running 530 hp on stock internals.. But its on stand alone ecu, mapped just right (no high torque in low revs).

Running at 2.3bar GT3071 .63

Can you map a coupe?

Impressive figures, even if it cant be corroberated at the moment.
Expect nothing less from Flea mind.

I also ran near to 400bhp for just over a year on standard internals and the car produced 340lb/ft @1.4bar.

Although shes never been to a drag strip or round a track(although this year could be promising)i didnt experience a single issue with the running.
Yes , the general concencus is 340/350 torques is the limit for standard internals although as flea said with correct mapping then you can still have a perfectly healthy engine.

At times the car was certainly pushed to its limits and ive had as much fun as anyone else would with this kind of power
Imo if your on a tuning budget and not planning to visit a track too often, its a perfectly feasable option and a lot lot cheaper than a full forged rebuild.

agree with what your saying, but are not not worried about it?

....thinking about it, as long as it has all the elements i.e cooling, correct map and a good bill of health before hand and its looked after, it should be ok!

it would just scare the hell out of me doing such.

seeing as an engine on ebay is the same price as a set of rods,let alone pistons etc....it wouldnt bother me a bit

its easy for me to say now that its forged

but for the time it wasnt, yes, i was a little on edge every time i opened the throttle, but nothing ever happened.

When it came to an inspection for the rebuild,everything looked like new inside.
Everyones experiences will differ im sure,but looking back at it, if i hadnt wanted a little more power then im sure she would of been fine for many more years to come.

I agree though marco, its not a nice feeling thinking "when will i hear the bang?"

Watz, your braver than me mate!
i just could not do that!!

i would be leaving a brown trail behind me every time i opened the taps!!

sounds good to be the tuning level of the standard internals is getting better by the year. like flea said its mostly down to the mapping

The terrible feeling is.... Open the taps down the bypass full chap, then when you go to slow down the engine cutts out!! This point thinking Arrghhhh WTF!!! Restart her and shes 'chapping her chebbs off' lol

... Gives that sickening feeling, glance at the oil pressure.. 1 bar!! Lol baaaad times indeed!

Here's the thing - the engine might be fine for road use with the occasional blat, but sustained boost for 20-30 mins will create issues in a short space of time.

If you are prepared for the engine to let go then why not go for it, you might be lucky and get 20,000 miles out of it.... then again...

it's proven that the stock rods bend over 350 lbs ft, and more than 1.4 bar on the stock pistons causes issues. Whilst the map is critical I would advise against anyone thinking 'his car was fine, mine will be OK too...)'

I can't believe what I'm reading
These 2 statements simply don't add up.
If you've 400 horses under your right foot, you cannot use them to anywhere remotely near their potential if you've not been on a track.

I think it's fair to say I've covered more track day miles in a coop than most over the last couple of years. I wouldn't want to risk running any more than the 360 I have at 1.35 bar for any sustained period of 20-30 mins. And I've had lots of fun over the last few weeks with my ponies



^^^^ +1 what suba says, which is exactly what my comments infer.

Would have loved some more ponies at Goodwood last week to fend off the two Nissan GTR's too

I understand exactly what he means. Not everyone likes to do track days. In fact, I couldn't bare taking my coupe to a track and ragging the daylights out of it.

I would be happy just to know the power is there in case I needed or wanted to use it for whatever reason.

but whats the point of having the power if you can't use it legally? i rarely speed on the road as i'm fully aware of the consequences, and i'm new to the track - but these cars are made for strong running and the track/strip is the ONLY place it's safe to run it well. might as well get a fiesta diesel

Pero, what have you started

I think thats more than a fair comment, i was simply giving my personal experience.

Its been said many times that its not advised,no one advised me to go for it.But in this case i had no issues.

Surely when tuning an engine your always running a risk.

I agree with Proccy.
Why have the power if you don't want to use it or scared of it??

I dont think it would quite cut it

Did you get my PM Flea?

I dont think its a case of not wanting to use the power,and its certainly not the case of being scared of it.
I think this is going of topic a little bit, but why do i have to take the car to a track or strip to use the power as much as someone who does choose to?

What is the definition of pushing the limits?
Is it full throttle,redlining it everytime round a track for half an hour?
Perhaps its not the safest option i agree, but imo tarmacs tarmac!
I think its ridiculus for someone to imply that you must track/strip the car for you to enjoy the power it produces.
If thats the case then build yourself a powerfull coupe and thrash the balls out of it every week on a track.

Im trying to respect everyone elses opions on the matter, but to criticise me for how i use my car i think is a joke!!!

very rare rant over

Why Leighton, are people hassling you to bolt on big turbo's onto stock engines and mapping it to a gazillion horsepower? haha

no criticism intended, but you can break the national speed limit in second in these cars, so most of it's power is useless in a legal sense - be interested to know where and how you manage to "enjoy" the proper performance of your coupe without endangering life?

How does this have anything to do with a 400bhp+ coupe with stock internals??

probably the same as your post 2 up from mine

If you have nothing useful to add, kindly stop hijacking the thread.

i will if you do

Watz, no bad intended mate!

But it's rare to see people build a 400bhp monster to nip down the shops...

And there best used in the track.

That is all!
I hope you don't think I wa taking the pi$$ mate!!

Marco, I am planning on upping my power from 350bhp to aroud 450bhp, and I will never take my car on the track.

Some people just have different ideas on why they want that sort of power.

I would be interested to see how the power is developed and how that compares with a forged internals engine. Anyone any graphs?

Unfortunately the person who's car this is, is banned from the forum. And Flea's dyno is out of action so no power figures from there.

Each to there own mate!
I guess would just be worried about a massive failure... But as stated with a correct set up, and a healthy engine it's fine...

Iv been contacted buy the owner of this coupe in question, originaly this coupe was owned by goose on this forum, then Paul warner, and now ads20v

this coupe has been built by goose to run on standard internals because he beleaved this was more then capiable, somewhere between goose and Paul warner was another owner but can not be confirmed by rogger at power italia that the engine was replaced with a rebuilt engine, this maybe standard or forged but will never be confirmed as this owner is unknown

then mapped when Paul warner owned it by flea

now running a gt2871r 86 turbo, 440 injectors and has to date from being mapped destroyed a gearbox 2 days after being remapped by flea and this Thursday shearing a drive shaft clean off on the long side in second gear at 3,500rpm

this coupe is a complete monster and is booked tomorrow on the rollers so will post up the results

also that wasn't oil out the exhaurst, it was water vapour and diluted soot sitting in the tail pipe then pushed out with a blip of the throttle.

when flea mapped my car (standard internals) to 351bhp a well known and respected specialist told me that beyond 300bhp he couldn't see it lasing if booted on a regular basis - i respect his opinion and never run mine on the top setting on my boost controller and it's plenty fast enough in all conditions including track - as proved at donington

If you want to do that then go for it, but for a road car you may well find 350 bhp a much nicer car to drive, as you go to far northwards of 350 on a 2lr engine you loose the bottom end of the powerband, which is not much fun for the road unless you are mostly on the Mway and DCs. If you do it though please do feel free to pop round and give me a passenger ride.

My earlier comments were added as I dont want people reading this thread and thinking that 400bhp+ is fine on a stock engine, it has been done and almost always ended in an engine failure shortly afterwards if the car is pushed hard. Nyssa7 has raced a kappa (20vt engine), and put standard rods through the block on several occasions going over 350 lbs ft etc...

If you can accellerate faster up to 70mph then you CAN use it legally.

When I got to 320 bhp I knew I'd hit the sweet spot for me and any more power wouldnt make a big enough difference to my journeys to justify the greater cost and stressing of the components.

Everyones sweet spot will be different based on money, paranoia, driving style etc.

What's the point if you can't use it legally? Well of that was the case wouldnt that stop people buying ferrari's and other supercars? Erm......no! Lol

no criticism intended, but you can break the national speed limit in second in these cars, so most of it's power is useless in a legal sense - be interested to know where and how you manage to "enjoy" the proper performance of your coupe without endangering life? [/quote]

Its all very well being p/c about matters like this and perhaps its the right view to take, but i think in the real world it dosnt quite work like that.
Perhaps ive given the impression that i drive everywhere at 150mph everywhere i go, but this isnt the case by any means.I drive for a living so know full well the dangers of being on the road.
However, from what you have said,have you ever been over 70mph and endangered life?because being p/c thats were the boundry lies.
If you havnt then why do you have a 220bhp sports car capable of 150mph?
If you havnt been over 70mph then perhaps the diesel fiesta would of been better suited!

marco- no worries mate,bit touchy on this subject i admit!apologies

The whole thing about sticking to speed limits is a load of nonsense in any case. I know the forum does not promote speeding, and rightly so, but we all know the score.

I went on a MAC driving course when I bought my Honda Civic Type R and the instructor was an ex policeman. I was taught how to read corners and drive fast, but safe on windy country lanes. At the end of the day, the aim was for me to do around 80mhp in a safe manner, which is quite a challenge if you're not used to driving that way on country lanes - and this coming from an ex copper.

He also told me what I've lived by ever since I started driving. Stick to speed limits in built up areas and when the road is busy, but if you need to get to your destination quickly, drive at which ever speed will get you there safely.

Does anyone know where I can buy some toffee apples?

oooo hit a nerve have i?

I don't think going forged would affect the power output, just the ability to withstand it and run safely unless I am missing somethin

marks your correct mate going forge will just mean you can run the same power safely without thinking every time you put your foot down your going to hear a big bang

Well the results are in, will post up the graphs later when I'm back home unless I can email them to someone?

yer, feel free to email me at work.
marco.sorrentino@btlocalbusiness.co.uk

Has it been mapped since?





Can't you post the headlines? Most importantly where it was dyno'd

It was dyno'd at track n road, steve didn't have any concerns, did say the map was good from the results shown and the only thing he would do is run more boost but I think 1.4bar is enough!

It made 358.9bhp and 313Lbft on his rollers @1.4bar

??? On a gt2871r?
What happened to 420bhp, or am I getting confused with something else?

Lol! I nearly make that with a GT2860RS, standard injectors, smaller exhaust and less boost.

How did he manage to destroy a gearbox and snap a drive shaft with that power??

you can kill them to with standard power if you drive very hard with lots of launches

is that at the wheels?

Different rollers have different results, as track n road are the nearest and best in the area it was booked there, the car was never run on a dyno after flea mapped it on the day so we asked roughly what he thought it would be likely to be running and we said where it would be going to be power run and he's awhere of how they power run cars and it differs from his way but I'm sure there will be a local rr'day where the car can be compaired to other coupes on the day

Also what's your spec biggenz? Ads20v is more than willing to put money down at the next rr'day if you are?

Put money down for what?

You won't make it at Track'n'Road. My car made 342bhp at Circuit Motors, 315bhp a week later on exactly the same spec at Track'n'Road.

Divide your Circuit Motors bhp by 1.086 and you'll have a good estimate of what you'd make at Track'n'Road.

Taking the aforementioned car as an example and multiplying 358.9 by 1.086, I reckon it'd make around 390bhp at Circuit Motors, and with Fleamap, should break 400bhp.

It's probably broken down so many times because of the way it's been driven. I've seen it being drag raced up and down industrial estates and generally hanging around in the local Basildon 'McDonalds scene'. It's changed hands countless times, each time for less and less money, it's been brought up by any garage, exhaust specialist, or tyre shop I've been too when they see mine in the same colour (all sorts of stories). I've been flashed by scrotes in old chavved up Astras, vans, or just waved at by silly tarts in KAs, quite funny when they pull alongside and realise it's not their mate, but you get the idea.

Hasn't done much for the local perspective of the coop in the area... Hopefully the latest owner will look after it a bit better

How can there be such a big difference between the power readings at different dyno's?

How do you know which one is accurate?

You don't, and you can't tell. Either could be spot on, it could be bang in the middle, or it could be more or less than either extreme. It doesn't mater really.

All that does matters, is that you compare your own car before and after modifications on the same dyno. Having all of the cars Flea's mapped on the same dyno makes it great to compare different specs, or indeed the possible variation in cars with the same spec.

I like to run mine on both so I can compare my results to coops all over the country, or just then cars that are local to me.

Lol tappy you git! Lol

Well, I'll be going to Surrey Rolling Road this Saturday, so it will be interesting to see what results I get.

I'll let ben know but I think he knows deep down lol

Whatever results you get, you can't compare them to any other dyno results. Some dyno operators can't even set the damn dynos up properly and I've seen all sorts of results when this happens.

No dyno can measure 100% accurately, whatever they tell you. Personally, I'd like to test an engine on a proper engine dyno (which are said to be spot on), then fit the engine in a car and run it all round the country testing lots of different dynos. Until someone spends the money, we'll never know. Just use the dyno for what it's best used for (measurement of additional modifications) and don't worry about the figures.

Boosted_Coupe, who's Ben?

Biggenz mate, good luck and make sure you post up the results!
Ive heard they have a pretty good reputation there, some guy called Charlie, pretty clued up, done loads of cars, including coops. Enjoy.

Was the owner after Paul warner

Cheers Maurizio! If my results turn out to be 30 odd bhp less like Trappy's, I'll rather not post it up!

This is my belief, also. Although im only going on evidence of friends cars.
My view is that dyno owners/operators as a rule are wanting to please their customers so may possibly be optomistic in their data.

Ha ha, you'll have to PM me then! lol.

Google 'Dyno Dynamics Rolling Road' they call it the heartbreaker, just a warning.
My print out was a fair bit lower than Fleas RR, BUT I did have a boost leak to be fair.

Anyway good luck Pero.

A little unclear from me. I had fleas comment about a good map in mind. I just wondered if the power was developed in a non forged engine would have to be far more progressive to avoid bending rods. But I don't know.

hi guys
rolling roads and getting figures
is called pub talk ......
too many people hating on the guys coupe for he only paid £650 for it .... bargain

Well in the last month or so there have been a few other dyno stories...

Hovedan - Stage 3 hybrid
360bhp & 332bs/ft @ Red Dot Racing

Darkside (Bravo 20vt) - GT28RS 0.64
360bhp & 360lbs/ft @ CRMC (Sreetracers)

There is an equilibrium in dyno world!

Take heed of the Trappmeister, a wise old man he is

imho

oem pistons will hold the power, even high one.. if you snap a piston, its probably knock.

oem rods are the problem and torque.. or how you develop torque and at which revs

graphs from todays power run

That's a very nice curve at high boost. Credit to Flea for a great smooth map I think! Must be a pleasure to drive. Looks like all components are working in good harmony.

The end of your post is exactly how me my bro and other coupe mates feel!!!

Trappy page7

what do you mean have i missed something in the tread again

I think he means the point where the rollers are ment the be used for measurment of additional modifications

Or maybe the industal chav statment? Lol

Hang on a minute, I have been known to hang out at McDonalds when visiting Rog !

i wonder how many coupe owners have visited that very same McDonalds

I have only been to Basildon once in my life, and erm, my mate wanted to stop at that Mcdonalds to get something to eat.

i know the guy the that owns the car its a fast car and he does push it very hard i raced him in my new coupe running 1.3 bar and beat him and i was running standard internal and i thought mine would last but one 4th gear run ended my engine i crack a ringland on the piston last week it was the 2nd 4th gear run that i pushed the car so its down to luck really now i have another broken car just makes me think what kind of power was i running if he had 420bhp obviously too much

my old car...

cant believe this made that much power.

Anyone know if this is still kicking about

Hi Goose, not seen you on here in a while! I have to say done a few standard engines with power that would raise the eyebrow, but yes when done right it's a pretty solid engine!

yeah been a while mate. still got yours?

mainly into drifting these days so still messing with my M3.

toying with the idea of changing my civic type r for a coupe though.

yeah that kind of power on any 2.0L turbo engine is really good.

I remember reading about this car a few years back and I think I saw it around Basildon quite a lot. Very quick but a bit of a dog to look at and I'm sure it must be dead by now. I also don't think it could have been 400bhp but I could be wrong.

When it use to be about around Basildon a guy call Paul owned the car it was running 380bhp on a gt28rs 86 when my mate got the car he put a gt2871r 86 with 440 injectors and a map done by flea it was running 1.3 bar then he up the boost to 1.5 which he was running about 420 bhp

And what happened to it.....still around? Crashed? Sold?

Engine blew up.

It spun a big end on number 1 when I stripped it down you could have got away with a little light rub with wet and dry and a new shell replaced but he broke it up for parts which he regret doing it and now I have all the parts in my ink plus

Where abouts are you lenzo? I've seen 2 coupes in south East London but don't know if there on here

I'm by canning town matey

Manual Boost Controller
hello guys, need advice, I want to install a manual boost controller to my 16 VT coupe, wich is complety stock,(only k&n cone air filter, a freeflow exhaust witout catalitic) but really don´t know how many bars should I set the boost in order to gain about 50 hps, without compromising the engine´s life. I´ve heard that i have to enriched the mixture and work with the pressure regulator, any comment? I´m from, Honduras central america.

You will need a modified chip for the ECU to allow optimal performance and increased boost pressure. Send me a PM for details on our Stage 1 and I'll advise further.