Does the GTA clutch fits to 16v turbo?

Thanks

If you mean 156 GTA clutch, what I've heard that it's same size as 16vt or 20vt std clutch...

how much torque can resist approx.?

it fits like the std?

sorry for my bad english,I'm italian <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The 156GTA 3.2 V6 clutch has to deal with less torque than a 20VT clutch, so IMHO and contrary to popular belief you might be better off with a 20VT clutch which is built to cope with more torque.

Hamster

the GTA clutch is the same size as the 20vt - I believe the 16vt is also the same.

The GTA clutch has a bigger friction plate so it can handle more than the 20vt clutch - I reckon the GTA will be OK up to about 280 lbs torque / 300bhp. Much higher and you will need any uprated cover plate to go with the GTA friction plate.

PowerFiat don't recommend the GTA place over the standard Fiat one. IIRC people claim 280ftlb for the standard clutch. If your boost comes in later, then you have less of a problem.

Anyone remember F = uR, where F is the friction, u is the co-efficient of friction and R is the reaction from the other surface? This basically says that the surface area is irrelevant and, IIRC, holds for most materials other than rubber.

This implies that you need a higher clamping force or you are wasting your time. A larger plate will give you more area to disipate heat and more friction material to wear away.

Unless of course, F=uR doesn't hold for friction materials, but I suspect that it does.

However its the other factors that always get in the way, which is why dragsters have large tyres and not bicycle tyres, the relationship doesnt hold entirely true when you consider other factors such as heat dissipation, and that co-efficients are not static.

Joe

The equation specifically does not hold for rubber. There is also wear to consider as a dragster vapourises its tyres, as do planes.


If the clutch isn't slipping, there should be virtually none. IMO a slightly bigger plate will make no appreciable difference.


wrt what?

Hi Roger <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What I meant is that the co-efficient will vary specifically due to changes in the material and due to temperature.

I'm sure you know this better than me, but in relation to Brake pad material, but the situation is different with brakes being virtually a dynamic vs a static issue.

I agree that a change in the size of the plate within a certain range would not necessarily be that noticeable the main way to get greater 'hold' is through clamping force, or a change in the frictional co-efficient ,such as a change in materials.

The paddle clutch has a lot less frictional area than the standard plate, but the material has a far higher frictional co-efficient, however this often leads to the clutch being 'grabby' or juddery and not always suitable fot street applications.

Found this



Where R=radius of gyration which is increased with a larger area

Advanced clutch technology

interesting read, taught me a thing or two.

So it implies that with clutches size does make a difference.

joe

This is really a second order effect when looking at increasing the clutch diameter by a small percentage. It is due to the frictional force being at a higher average radius, thus producing more torque.

The important thing to note is that the torque handling is not proportional to the area of friction material.

Roger

ahh, that makes sense, so it makes sense to place friction material as far awy from the axis of rotation as possible then.

So the GTA clutch would hold more torque if the extra friction material is placed towards the outside of the clutch plate. I cannot remember offhand if this is the case though.

joe

Great discussion this <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Does this equation stack up with our normal understanding of pressure = force / area

i.e. if the clutch plate was held by a clamping force (F) the pressure of the plate and hence frictional force would be reduced by increasing the area of the plate.

A slightly counter-intuitive result is that if you add more friction material inside the existing friction material ring, you reduce the torque rating of the clutch. If you remove material from the inside of the ring, you increase the torque capacity. Of course, there are other effects that you might not want.


No. They're using P for Pounds of clamping force! Bless.

If anyone can translate this quite technical discussion into Italian I'm sure Cola will appreciate it <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hamster

Yes, but I would have thought that within the constraints of the standard flywheel and clutch plate size, you'll get more from:

1. Increasing the clamping force e.g. Walkers +25% cover plate);
2. Increasing the coefficent of friction - I don't know how the different clutch plates compare on this.

Roger

Roger,

can I only get Walkers updated plate? If so, where from and how much? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
are there such things as updated bearing as well???

Cheers

Vas, yes you can get organic plates with higher friction co-efficients, or a paddle plate with lot higher CoeF.

Vas you can contact Walkers garage, please see the Clutch FAQ guide I did for the numbers.

joe

LOL <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Gta plate and walker cover plate (i think) can handle about 300lb/ft. I have a techniclutch which is rated to about 300lb/ft+.

Ross

Doc,

went through your guide (and of course the rest of the thread) and I admit I'm wiser now, but I also have two Qs:

First WTF is an organic clutch? (surely not a disk with microorganisms living in the friction material <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Then, I cannot find Walkers garage online (being in Greece, I'd rather not engage in lengthy long distance calls...)

Have come up with the offering from AutoIntegrale though, you recon it's similar?
'ere
(rather expensive <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ?)

cheers

Hi Vas, Organice clutch just refers to the type of friction material it will be most similar to a standard clutch of a GTA friction plate, you can get upagrades, in other words better friction, from using more aggressive compounds.

Here is the walkers garage link

Walkers garage clutch link

The uprated link you showed me would be suitable, but to really count as an upgrade you really need to get an uparated cover plate, Walkers supply one that is 25% stronger clamping force, that will work well with the clutch you have shown me, or a GTA friction plate or one of Walkers own organic plates.

Joe

ps just rolling roaded and clutch is still holding at 363bhp and 323 lb/ft, with quite an aggressive boost setup.. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />