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new member looking for advice!
#1454032
19/10/2013 14:55
19/10/2013 14:55
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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Hi all, first post as I'm looking for a coupe right now, always wanted one from when they first appeared! So I was looking for a turbo..and still am I suppose budget from 1500-2000, but I've found a non turbo 20v vis, not far from me in very good condition , low miles , cambelt done and tax/tested too! Question is will I be disappointed with a non turbo, I've had two mr2 turbos and 300zx turbo and from that I went to v6 FTO (manual) and I was really surprised at how quick it was even being used to the 3l turbo of the 300zx. Has anyone had any experience of both on here? Any help or advice welcome!
Thanks Ed
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454050
19/10/2013 16:45
19/10/2013 16:45
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
Unregistered
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Hi Ed ,
welcome to the forum , i would say go for the turbo as you have had turbo'd cars before so if you buy the n/a you will always wounder what the turbo is like to drive .
i've had turbo'd car for the last 18 years and wouldn't go back to a n/a unless it was a high cc v6 or v8 but thats just me .
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454073
19/10/2013 17:45
19/10/2013 17:45
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nismo
Unregistered
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nismo
Unregistered
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The turbo puts a smile on your face but not on the wallet
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454075
19/10/2013 17:55
19/10/2013 17:55
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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Hi Ed ,
welcome to the forum , i would say go for the turbo as you have had turbo'd cars before as if you buy the n/a you will always wounder what the turbo is like to drive .
i've had turbo'd car for the last 18 years and wouldn't go back to a n/a unless it was a high cc v6 or v8 but thats just me . Thanks nismo, yeh I think if I go n/a I will probably want a turbo very soon after, although I have been looking at what performance mods I could do already for the n/a on fc performance website...
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: MarioCirillo]
#1454076
19/10/2013 17:58
19/10/2013 17:58
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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Thanks, and your LE looks damn amazing! Loving that!
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: tim16v]
#1454086
19/10/2013 19:01
19/10/2013 19:01
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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Hi Tim , Thanks and yeah, this vis that has turned up close to me , looks to be great just what I want cosmetically and if tomorrow when I take it for a drive if performs well ,I may well end up buying it, just hope that voice in my ear saying I should of waited for a turbo doesn't appear!
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454087
19/10/2013 19:04
19/10/2013 19:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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A note from an N/A owner. I have the VIS which has been mapped and new zorst, so it should have around 180bhp. This puts it in same bracket as our old Leon cupra 1.8 turbo. It is quick but obviously still some way off the turbo. I have had 2 na coupes now and I've held off getting the turbo due to running costs and the danger of buying a stinker. The na probably sounds as good AND you can drive it hard without getting too illegal All depends on whether you want it for outright power or just sound and looks? Also it might be harder to find a turbo which is in good nick compared to an NA. However if you want to do lots of modding, then it has to be the turbo. If I had the extra funds then perhaps I would consider one. Some people prefer the "purity" of an na engine.
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Gripped]
#1454091
19/10/2013 19:23
19/10/2013 19:23
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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A note from an N/A owner. I have the VIS which has been mapped and new zorst, so it should have around 180bhp. This puts it in same bracket as our old Leon cupra 1.8 turbo. It is quick but obviously still some way off the turbo. I have had 2 na coupes now and I've held off getting the turbo due to running costs and the danger of buying a stinker. The na probably sounds as good AND you can drive it hard without getting too illegal All depends on whether you want it for outright power or just sound and looks? Also it might be harder to find a turbo which is in good nick compared to an NA. However if you want to do lots of modding, then it has to be the turbo. If I had the extra funds then perhaps I would consider one. Some people prefer the "purity" of an na engine. Thanks, 180Bhp sounds good with those mods, I've been looking at performance tuning for the vis already and to be honest if I can get 180-200Bhp from the vis, I'd maybe rather that than the turbo, and like you say the condition of the car is a big consideration too..
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Cooperman]
#1454105
19/10/2013 20:38
19/10/2013 20:38
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proccy
Unregistered
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proccy
Unregistered
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I'd say test them both before deciding - they drive completely differently, i found it so easy to drive the VT version it's what i've always gone for
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454110
19/10/2013 21:21
19/10/2013 21:21
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richandnic
Unregistered
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richandnic
Unregistered
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I entered the world of coupé owners earlier this year and had the same dilemma....i found a nice na and bought that. I've added a flea chip (8hp). I sometimes wonder if i should have bought a turbo. In the end i figured that i wanted a coop for its looks. The na is an easier every day car and has a great engine sound. It is an easy drive....5th gear around town but sounds great above 3500 rpm.
Being a wimp, i am also mindful that it is a 20yr old design and stacking it into the back of the many tractors round our way is going to hurt and so the overall driving experience is more important than outright speed is more important to me. It is still a reasonably fast car.
Decisions decisions!
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454113
19/10/2013 22:27
19/10/2013 22:27
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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soopcoop
Unregistered
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It is a hard decision, so a flea chip? Do you have the 20v non vis?
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454118
19/10/2013 23:18
19/10/2013 23:18
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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The VIS has a different ECU to the standard na, so you can' t just chip it. You have to have it mapped "in person" as flea has to give it a custom map on a dyno. Mine went from 155 bhp to 169 then I added a k&n filter and a custom stainless cat back exhaust. Based on data from a good trawl of the web i estimated around 5% increase for the zorst and a bit extra for the filter. So estimated 175+ .
The zorst definitely made a difference.
So on a pre-VIS will be 147bhp plus a chip of 8bhp = 155 or same as the VIS. However my pre VIS was a different animal to my current car, so don't let it put you off the 147 model. The VIS is smoother but the 147 is more "racey" above 4,500rpm.
Last edited by Gripped; 19/10/2013 23:25.
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: coupedummy]
#1454128
20/10/2013 00:02
20/10/2013 00:02
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643 Watford
MarioCirillo
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
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I wonder what a standard 20v na will remap to. The chip is generic so a map should get the most from it. The chip for the 20v NA was made by Leighton mapping my NA. You don't get too much in terms of power. 7-8bhp... but wow it makes a difference to the responsiveness of the car!
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454132
20/10/2013 00:46
20/10/2013 00:46
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643 Watford
MarioCirillo
Ex El Presidente
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Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 12,643
Watford
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Trust me.... it transforms the car!
Last edited by MarioCirillo; 20/10/2013 00:52.
Proud Owner of Rosso Speed LE041
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: ]
#1454142
20/10/2013 07:34
20/10/2013 07:34
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Davie
Unregistered
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Davie
Unregistered
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The ideal compromise is a 20v vis for a daily and 20vt for the weekend
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Gripped]
#1454149
20/10/2013 08:26
20/10/2013 08:26
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192 Bristol, UK
Hovedan
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192
Bristol, UK
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A note from an N/A owner. I have the VIS which has been mapped and new zorst, so it should have around 180bhp. When I had Custard (my yellow VIS), this was remapped (original guinea pig) by Flea. It made 165bhp, this was with a custom 'zorst (standard bore as na's need back pressure from exhaust for torque). The zorst gives a nicer note, but no real performance gains. As for a k&n filter or cone, other than more increased noise in the induction part, I actually found this to be detrimental to the original airbox for performance, so I ultimately reverted it to standard induction. The only way you'll hit the 180-200 bracket is to do the 2.4 conversion. Other than that, I loved the VIS's peppy performance, certainly for local driving and roads up to 50 mph, there's no real benefits to have from having a turbo! All that, and less to go wrong, great oil pressure, glorious soundtrack and all the style that a coupe brings! The ideal compromise is a 20v vis for a daily and 20vt for the weekend Exactly what I had
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Hovedan]
#1454157
20/10/2013 09:32
20/10/2013 09:32
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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[quote=Gripped]
When I had Custard (my yellow VIS), this was remapped (original guinea pig) by Flea. It made 165bhp, this was with a custom 'zorst (standard bore as na's need back pressure from exhaust for torque). The zorst gives a nicer note, but no real performance gains. As for a k&n filter or cone, other than more increased noise in the induction part, I actually found this to be detrimental to the original airbox for performance, so I ultimately reverted it to standard induction.
The only way you'll hit the 180-200 bracket is to do the 2.4 conversion.
I agree that I need to substantiate my power estimate via a new dyno run. My remap made a measured 169bhp on standard everything. As for the cat-back zorst, there are some fairly convincing scientific tests on the web showing [I think] about 5% increase or thereabouts, meaning 177bhp without considering the K&N. This is on the basis of a proper custom made system. Since the zorst was fitted, the pick up and acceleration are definitely better, and the guy from Prospeed (long term expert in the field) told me it would definitely have a positive effect. As for the K&N, I've read around the subject, and I think it is fairly even, for and against. I'm experimenting with mine to see what difference it makes. I never stated I was in the 180-200 bracket though. Clearly, this is turbo territory.
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: redjon]
#1454159
20/10/2013 09:41
20/10/2013 09:41
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610 S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped
Club member 1924
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Club member 1924
Forum is my job
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,610
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
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....... what im saying is get a turbo or you will never feel satisfied with a coop na as good as they are they always aspire to be their big brother Not sure I can agree. The 20V NA existed in its own right in the Coupe, Bravo HGT and Marea, and then in 2.4 form in the Stilo. So, you could say that the NA is the purer experience. As many say, the driving experience completely different - since they have a different gearbox, clutch, steering rack, brakes, wheels etc. Don't get me wrong, if I had the cash I'd have one of each. Member of the downtrodden NA for President Club.
Last edited by Gripped; 20/10/2013 09:42.
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Gripped]
#1454187
20/10/2013 13:50
20/10/2013 13:50
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 296 Boston, UK
Spoonz
Making a profit
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Making a profit
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 296
Boston, UK
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Mario, you shouldn't post pictures of your LE and Ex 20v, thats pure car porn . The 20v N/A is perfect for everyday driving and if your lucky you can hit 35/36 Mpg. My flea chipped 20v is great, has a perfect amount of grunt to overtake and torque is readily availiable, and a raised rev limiter which means 60mph in 5th sits at 2750rpm rather than 3,000rpm. no one should knock the N/a, its a fantastic engine with enough power to put a smile on your face.
Last edited by Spoonz; 20/10/2013 13:52.
Signature to large. 300 x 100 max
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: Spoonz]
#1454195
20/10/2013 16:12
20/10/2013 16:12
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,524 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,524
Aldershot
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and a raised rev limiter which means 60mph in 5th sits at 2750rpm rather than 3,000rpm. Not sure what you mean there?
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: new member looking for advice!
[Re: PeteP]
#1454212
20/10/2013 17:45
20/10/2013 17:45
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192 Bristol, UK
Hovedan
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,192
Bristol, UK
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and a raised rev limiter which means 60mph in 5th sits at 2750rpm rather than 3,000rpm. Not sure what you mean there? I thought that when I read it earlier. Only gearing changes can affect that?
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