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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578296
24/06/2016 18:04
24/06/2016 18:04
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Big_Muzzie
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Big_Muzzie
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China isn't a good example at all, you manage trade with tariffs. Wealth is created through proper management.
China is in the poop, we all know this. It's the perfect example of how to out grow your customers through slave labour and under cutting at any cost. Not exactly a model for socio-economic success.
As I said, and you proved my point, there are what ifs for everything - claims can then be put against them to say why they won't work. But as with all claims, it's all what ifs. Shame that there are so many negative people that don't want to see or believe it can work because it needs to, the votes over MRS - time for it to be sucked up and got on with.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578302
24/06/2016 18:25
24/06/2016 18:25
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
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China was successful because of its abuse of its population, that to me is not success. Stick a living wage in there and the place would have collapsed.
Yes, I was an accountant for a firm that sourced some 300m goods pa from China for the UK highstreet. Please don't assume Im talking from fiction, I always try and speak from experience. You may have heard of Li and fung.
Which of my what ifs weren't based in reality, all were perfect examples of positive sides of actual events.
I've said today, I think we've got 7-10 years before we settle into something of 'normal'. There's alot of pain coming before anything improves, a whole generation of school leavers who could well suffer for it.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1578305
24/06/2016 18:43
24/06/2016 18:43
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,094 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,094
highlands
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China was successful because of its abuse of its population, that to me is not success. Stick a living wage in there and the place would have collapsed. Nail on the head.
Last edited by PeteP; 24/06/2016 18:53. Reason: sortrd quotes bracket for you
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578311
24/06/2016 19:21
24/06/2016 19:21
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Yes. Look up Li and fung. I have spoken to more, visited, worked with more Chinese than anyone else. I have seen tha facade factory's established as fronts to slave labour, I've seen the fines that arrive when a customer pays for an inspection on the spot and the facade has fallen. I've also worked with the men who were the first in the UK to mass import product from the far east (Peter Black) so yes, I know alot about China and where it was.
I've seen the better side too, some of the giant live in factories are very good compared to where they've been. But then they aren't as cheap as they were as a result hence there issues now.
My experience on this is between 5 and 13 years old.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578312
24/06/2016 19:23
24/06/2016 19:23
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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As I answered your scenarios with the potential positive. Sometimes good things come from bad.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1578315
24/06/2016 19:33
24/06/2016 19:33
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852 Cambridge & Cotswolds
MeanRedSpider
Je suis un Coupé
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Je suis un Coupé
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
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Yes. Look up Li and fung. I have spoken to more, visited, worked with more Chinese than anyone else. I have seen tha facade factory's established as fronts to slave labour, I've seen the fines that arrive when a customer pays for an inspection on the spot and the facade has fallen. I've also worked with the men who were the first in the UK to mass import product from the far east (Peter Black) so yes, I know alot about China and where it was.
I've seen the better side too, some of the giant live in factories are very good compared to where they've been. But then they aren't as cheap as they were as a result hence there issues now.
My experience on this is between 5 and 13 years old. So what did those Chinese shop floor workers tell you about their lives? Where are those Chinese shop floor workers now? What's the quality of life those people have now versus that which they had 10 years ago and the lives their parents had? What's healthcare provision like now versus 20 years ago? They've gone through in the space of a decade or two what it took Europe 100-150 years to go through. Were these people living an idyllic life before those nasty westerners took advantage of them?
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578318
24/06/2016 19:46
24/06/2016 19:46
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Big_Muzzie
Unregistered
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Now? I said IT WAS BUILT ON, now it's falling down. I don't know where they are now, some will be dead. Some will have been worked to death. Some will have made millions and be the new rich in China.
Define idillyc. they probably had a simple spiritual life. One without the trappings and tortures of materiality. What do they have now? The same shit as us, a life dependent on Bix sets, big tvs and money.
I know one thing, you can't answer your own questions.
Many of the factory workers I saw looked unhappy, tired and generally dishevelled. Promises broken would be a description.
As for there feelings, I don't know as they didn't speak English and I don't speak any Chinese dialect and no-one I was with would have translated as they could easily have disappeared. Maybe the China you see isn't the one I saw,making clothes, bags and shoes. Small children making cheap jewellery. But it's a fact, it was there not 10 years ago.
What do the factory workers tell you? Do they get a living wage? 37 hour week? 5 weeks holiday a year? Or are they still not up to European (oh bugger) standards?
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Clintos]
#1578337
24/06/2016 21:28
24/06/2016 21:28
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Lego
Unregistered
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Lego
Unregistered
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0nly 5 - £6000. Sorry quick of the cuff post relying on my teenagers-data telling me of a peak percentage drop of of around 12% on the dollar not the Euro. An Villa prices have already gone up since Tuesday I will be paying more for my euros But hey all the figures quoted have been made up anyway. . I reckon I'll lose about 350 million each week of my holiday..
Last edited by Lego; 24/06/2016 21:32.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1578340
24/06/2016 22:08
24/06/2016 22:08
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,522 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,522
Aldershot
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Villa prices have already gone up since Tuesday I will be paying more for my euros But hey all the figures quoted have been made up anyway. . I reckon I'll lose about 350 million each week of my holiday.. Nah, you'll gain 350 million each week as it won't be going to those nice people in Brussels.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578346
24/06/2016 22:28
24/06/2016 22:28
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575 Ayrshire
ScouseCoupe
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 575
Ayrshire
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I have just spent 3 weeks in the cities of Qingdao, Rizhao, Caofedian and Beijing, hence missing out on the scottish road trip in my Coupe.
This was my second visit to China in the past 8 months. What i see is poor communities with very rich affluent people. Never seen so many high end very expensive cars in one place.
From what i saw, a typical Manager earns in USD circa $900 a month. Property seems not cheap either, but they do build apartment towers dam quick.
1999 Rosso Corsa 20VT ( Restored ) 2000 Rosso Alfa 916 Spider 2.0 T.S Lusso ( Under Restoration)
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ScouseCoupe]
#1578351
24/06/2016 23:25
24/06/2016 23:25
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 735 Yorks (near Rhubarb Triangle)
Robotrish
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 735
Yorks (near Rhubarb Triangle)
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I have just spent 3 weeks in the cities of Qingdao, Rizhao, Caofedian and Beijing, hence missing out on the scottish road trip in my Coupe.
This was my second visit to China in the past 8 months. What i see is poor communities with very rich affluent people. Never seen so many high end very expensive cars in one place.
From what i saw, a typical Manager earns in USD circa $900 a month. Property seems not cheap either, but they do build apartment towers dam quick.
Yes with empty oil cans as part of the structure http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35515749
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578352
24/06/2016 23:55
24/06/2016 23:55
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,094 highlands
jimboy
Club Member 857
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Club Member 857
Forum is my life
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,094
highlands
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The one thing that glues the members on here together is the Coop. I'm a people person & it's almost like a hobby, not so much these days, but there was a time I would've went to an envelope opening, if the Coop was involved had I owned one. My point, it really is quite surprising on how people react & post their views on here about the historic event that has just happened. I was, in my 40's a member of a group that went out & made money for charities, a body that was all over Britain & beyond. I say this as I quickly realised that this was also a platform for not only playing/partying, there seemed to be some political wannabes & saw fit to speak their mind. At least it was live, although at that time I just let things wash over me. It's just too easy to say things & that includes myself, but without overstating I certainly think that some views on here regarding the EU are certainly not prevalent in every area of Britain. As I've said before postcode lottery... You see what you want to see in your wee bit of the UK. I would never see myself as an expert & perhaps I' ve been lucky & jobwise secure. That's just my neck of the woods, but some on here seem to think & speak for the future of all of the UK.........
I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578353
25/06/2016 00:07
25/06/2016 00:07
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783 In the coupe.
magooagain
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
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Excuse my ignorance,is there such a thing as a Welsh or Scottish passport? Or is it just a British one?
Family in NI are talking about applying for an Irish one.
Is that a possibility?
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: MeanRedSpider]
#1578355
25/06/2016 00:25
25/06/2016 00:25
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,836 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,836
Auld Reekie
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Pound has fallen big time. oh well thats another £400 onto my holiday costs. What a bonus! your costs must be astronomical! For every £100 you spend you will (today) receive only 118 euros instead of 124, let's say you would have to spend c.£105 to achieve the latter, i.e. an extra £5..... So £400 more in holiday costs at that rate you'd be outlaying well over £80,000 None of my business, but just saying... £4000 holiday in USA will be £400 more expensive if all costs are £/$ related. Oil is mostly priced in $ too. Good excuse for a fuel price rise. Yes but he's only going to Saltcoats
Last edited by Edinburgh; 25/06/2016 01:11.
BumbleBee carer
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: magooagain]
#1578358
25/06/2016 00:43
25/06/2016 00:43
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,522 Aldershot
PeteP
Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
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Hon Club Member 005, Membership Secretary
Forum Fossil
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,522
Aldershot
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Excuse my ignorance,is there such a thing as a Welsh or Scottish passport? Or is it just a British one?
Family in NI are talking about applying for an Irish one.
Is that a possibility? It is indeed possible Joe. Basically anyone who can show that at least I person in their bloodline (going back to Grandparents) was born in Ireland, either side of the border, is able to apply for an Irish passport/citizenship. Once that has been granted any of that persons descendants is similarly entitled. There was something on the BBC.com News about it. I can no longer find the original article,but this touches on the topic I'm tempted to finally do something about my right to St Kitts-Nevis citizenship.
16VT and X1/9 1500
We must all do our part for the planet. I unplugged a row of electric cars that nobody was using.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Edinburgh]
#1578360
25/06/2016 00:57
25/06/2016 00:57
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Lego
Unregistered
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Lego
Unregistered
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£4000 holiday in USA will be £400 more expensive if all costs are £/$ related. Yes but he's only going to Saltcoats Oil is mostly priced in $ too. Good excuse for a fuel price rise. [/quote Simon, you'll need a permanent holiday in England with your mate Farage, as that's the only way your going to get out of being governed by Europe now. Just saying.
Last edited by Lego; 25/06/2016 01:00.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: ]
#1578362
25/06/2016 01:29
25/06/2016 01:29
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,836 Auld Reekie
Edinburgh
Club President, member225
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Club President, member225
Forum veteran
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,836
Auld Reekie
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None of my business, but just saying... £4000 holiday in USA will be £400 more expensive if all costs are £/$ related. Oil is mostly priced in $ too. Good excuse for a fuel price rise. Yes but he's only going to Saltcoats Simon, you'll need a permanent holiday in England with your mate Farage, as that's the only way your going to get out of being governed by Europe now. Just saying. Nearer the coop specialists at least Wouldn't if be funny if Nige drove a coop.....
BumbleBee carer
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Edinburgh]
#1578364
25/06/2016 01:50
25/06/2016 01:50
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Lego
Unregistered
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Lego
Unregistered
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None of my business, but just saying... £4000 holiday in USA will be £400 more expensive if all costs are £/$ related. Oil is mostly priced in $ too. Good excuse for a fuel price rise. Yes but he's only going to Saltcoats Simon, you'll need a permanent holiday in England with your mate Farage, as that's the only way your going to get out of being governed by Europe now. Just saying. Nearer the coop specialists at least Wouldn't if be funny if Nige drove a coop..... He'd fit right-in in this club. Nige
Last edited by Lego; 25/06/2016 02:20.
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: jimboy]
#1578389
25/06/2016 12:40
25/06/2016 12:40
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Jonny
Unregistered
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Jonny
Unregistered
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I would never see myself as an expert & perhaps I' ve been lucky & jobwise secure. That's just my neck of the woods, but some on here seem to think & speak for the future of all of the UK......... If the economy takes a serious medium/long term hit, it will be the whole of the UK though. Areas of the UK don't matter. The latest news regarding our credit rating drop won't be selective. On a different note, please don't leave us, I still want to be able to support Andy Murray. He's half the reason you see the GB flag on the TV these days
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578406
25/06/2016 16:37
25/06/2016 16:37
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patch234
Unregistered
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patch234
Unregistered
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I saw the exact same as that you said on Facebook maybe an hour ago
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Re: EU Fccuk Poll - In or Out
[Re: Theresa]
#1578407
25/06/2016 16:43
25/06/2016 16:43
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patch234
Unregistered
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patch234
Unregistered
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