Fiat Coupe Forum
- Founded by Kayjey & James Northam
- Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Posting images


» Related sites
    Main club site
    fiatcoupe.net


» External data
    owners listed
 
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 201 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums69
Topics113,599
Posts1,341,093
Members1,801
Most Online731
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters(All Time)
barnacle 33,553
stan 32,122
Theresa 23,300
PeteP 21,512
bockers 21,071
JimO 17,917
Nigel 17,367
Edinburgh 16,786
RSS Feeds
Club Events
Club Information
Track Events
Rolling Road/RWYB
Social Events
Non-UK Events
Coupé Related Chat
Coupé Spotting
Coupé News/Press
Buying/Selling Advice
Insuring a Coupé
Basic FAQ's
How to Guides
Forum Issues
Technical Problems
General Maintenance
Styling
Tuning
Handling
ICE and Alarm
Coupés for Sale
Coupés Wanted
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Group Buys
Business Forum
Other Vehicles for Sale/Wanted
Other Items for Sale/Wanted
Haggling/Offers
Ebay links
Other Cars
Other Websites
General Chat
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists #1594629
19/02/2017 20:02
19/02/2017 20:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
Dear Mr Farage,

Congratulations on your success in 'giving us our country back' - some of us foolishly thought we already had it, but never mind; we were obviously mistaken.

It's been some months now since your victory.

Would it be perhaps impolite to ask when I might expect to see the benefits which were promised by your campaign? As far as I can see, the main effect of the exit vote was to demolish the value of my savings and my pension plan. I don't like to complain, but perhaps you would be so kind as to reimburse me for the hundred thousand quid or so by which my pension fund - on any international exchange - has been devalued.

I'm sure the similar increase in the cost of foreign holidays has been a mere courtesy detail, since of course no True Englishman[tm] would ever consider travelling further than Brighton.

I am told that the British economy is doing better than ever. This is hardly a surprise, given the laughably low exchange rates, but remarkably my salary has not increased in similar measure - so once again, my expenses are no longer matched by my income. Food has increased in price; vehicle fuel has increased in price; domestic power has increased in price - indeed, anything which is either imported or which relies on transport within the UK (let's see, that would be everything) has increased in price.

And perhaps you'd care to comment on the uncertainty regarding right of abode in this country (and similar reciprocal rights within the EU)? As someone with an EU-born partner, you will of course have considered these issues - but perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us? I'm sure you didn't intend that this situation would end up as a bargaining chip in negotiations, leaving an estimated three million people in limbo.

Regards,

Barnacle


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594637
19/02/2017 20:35
19/02/2017 20:35
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611
Aberdeenshire,Scotland
A
Azzura Offline
Enjoying the ride
Azzura  Offline
Enjoying the ride
A

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 611
Aberdeenshire,Scotland
Of course , we now know that far from being the happily married family man, Farage is actually separated from his German wife. Not too much of a stretch to believe that his entire involvement in getting the UK out of the EU was just a roundabout way of getting rid of his wife .... wink


Yesterday Sprint Blue 20VT,today Denim Blue TT225
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594640
19/02/2017 21:04
19/02/2017 21:04
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
M
Mark_S Offline
Forum is my job
Mark_S  Offline
Forum is my job
M

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
I think it was David Cameron, who gave us all the vote, rather than Farage. He obviously had the right idea as the majority agreed with him. At least he had the courage to stand up and say what he believed in. Agree with him or not, plenty of politicians just bend to the prevailing wind.


997 C4S
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: Azzura] #1594641
19/02/2017 21:25
19/02/2017 21:25
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826
Kent
C
cyborg7 Offline
Club member 1400
cyborg7  Offline
Club member 1400
Enjoying the ride
C

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 826
Kent
Originally Posted By Azzura
Of course , we now know that far from being the happily married family man, Farage is actually separated from his German wife. ...getting rid of his wife .... wink


Saw a great "quote" on Newsthump by Farage in response to the criticism that he'd installed a 20 something French Intern in his London flat..."I don't see what all the fuss is about, after all the British people gave me a very clear mandate to stick one to the Germans and fccuk the French."

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594647
19/02/2017 22:56
19/02/2017 22:56
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 382
UK
Downhillryder Offline
Making a profit
Downhillryder  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 382
UK
Barnacle - if an approx 15% drop in stirling cost you 100k then you should retire with your stonking pension pot and enjoy it while you can because most of the drop was due to stirling being too high in the first place. When the banks in europe (Italy and Germany) "really" face upto the debts they still have then the dollars growth will hurt you further. Do it now.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594654
20/02/2017 06:39
20/02/2017 06:39
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
I expect my pension pot to have to last me for between forty and fifty years after I retire, DHR, given current life expectancies, my family history, and my doctor's advice.

Having saved hard for forty years into that pension pot, I don't take it kindly when some arse impolitely devalues it. The argument 'Sterling was too high in the first place' is both immaterial and subjective, and does not answer the issue.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594656
20/02/2017 07:53
20/02/2017 07:53
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
magooagain  Offline
Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,783
In the coupe.
I believe any investment when starting out comes with a warning that the rate of interest can fall as well as rise and the policy holder must be aware of this.



Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: magooagain] #1594669
20/02/2017 10:02
20/02/2017 10:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
M
Mark_S Offline
Forum is my job
Mark_S  Offline
Forum is my job
M

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,831
Haslemere, Surrey
With a pension you need to take a long term view and have diversified investments, in 5-10 years Sterling may go the other way and then you will turn out a winner (for example if we manage Brexit well and EU implodes).


997 C4S
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594685
20/02/2017 12:55
20/02/2017 12:55
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
H_R Offline
My life on the forum
H_R  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,650
Dark side of the Moon
And we are still in the EU now, so obviously there is no protection from the EU when it comes to the value of sterling!
So who's to say it couldn't of happened even if we stayed in the EU as we still are Now!

Petrol/diesel was £1.50 odd a few years the £ to Euro value has been low not that long ago and the interest rate has been low for years!

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594694
20/02/2017 14:10
20/02/2017 14:10
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
I think we're confusing cause and effect here. The effect is that the £ is devalued and there are many ways that could happen. The (main) cause in this instance is the Brexit vote. The effect was entirely predictable based upon the cause. Farage has taken credit for the cause so he should also take "credit" for the effect (whether you think it is good or bad).

What I've already seen is that it is harder now for us (as a U.K. business) to attract talent from abroad because our salaries appear uncompetitive and, like it or not, talent from abroad always has financial obligations in their home country.

From a professional point of view, I'm still struggling to see how we think control over our own regulations is going to help us. The truth in consumer products is that we'll have to meet EU regs that are written specifically to disadvantage U.K. manufacturers because we will no longer be at the table to defend our interests - in exactly the same way that US and Chinese regs favour domestic producers. Writing our "own" regulations would be a nonsense.

Still, more than half the country is obviously smarter than me so Brexit means Brexit. And jobs abroad pay much better now wink And UK property is much cheaper for the Chinese as are U.K. companies. This MUST be a Good Thing - No? wink

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594699
20/02/2017 15:03
20/02/2017 15:03
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 205
basingstoke, england
rayzer82 Offline
Club member 2009
rayzer82  Offline
Club member 2009
Making a profit

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 205
basingstoke, england
The only thing I have seen in my job is companies hiding behind brexit almost using it as an excuse....we get emails constantly from suppliers explaining they've had to put prices up ....because brexit

That's about the only explanation we get.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594728
20/02/2017 22:14
20/02/2017 22:14
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
JonH Offline
Enjoying the ride
JonH  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
I voted to remove the UK - it was my opinion(and i'm happy to say it still is),but I respect others that differ on opinion from my own thought process. Except idiot former Prime Ministers.

..... With, or without, the issue of finally leaving the club I don't think it is particularly 100% correct to say that the doom merchants are right in saying everything that is going to bite the UK is all the fault of the majority choosing its destiny and returning to independance.

The debt and fragility that we are in now is the same place that we have been in for many years. Hidden extremely well by the corridors of power and corruption. And it is only the fact that the number crunchers can scapegoat the potential doom onto the majority of voters who have chosen to leave that the true state of the Nation is becoming public.

Historically & hypothetically , if the majority of voters ended up choosing to stay in the club then the cloak of deception would undoubtably continue for another 2-3 years before it really could not be hidden any further.
And what we would be faced with then is a violent exit, not a democratic one.
The other Countries that are undoubtably going to leave soon may not have the freedom to choose a democratic route.

Time to cut the losses and lick our wounds.
Austerity is coming regardless.
You could choose to face that and make things good again as best we can with everything already sold off including our forefathers assets, or you could choose to continue to live the false life and let your children/grandchildren pay for it instead. What a legacy to leave !!!!




No.199
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594730
20/02/2017 22:21
20/02/2017 22:21

T
TbirdX
Unregistered
TbirdX
Unregistered
T



There's also been an exponential rise in 'moaning' and 'whinging', up around 3000% at the last check I believe, so at least somethings on the up.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: ] #1594845
22/02/2017 11:25
22/02/2017 11:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,064
South Cambs
B
Barmybob Offline
Hon Club Member: 003
Barmybob  Offline
Hon Club Member: 003
Je suis un Coupé
B

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,064
South Cambs
Something that always depressed me about my home nation is the British glass half empty view of almost everything. No matter how better off we may have become as a nation we seem to fail to see it and just revel in our rose tinted glasses view of the past and bemoaning everything.

Yes, there are some significant issues in the UK and a lot of people feel left behind. But I am unaware how what we have done will fix any of those very real issues for those very real people. The whole break away argument seemed to rely on suggesting that anyone who felt disadvantaged would reap huge rewards by voting leave. Sadly if something looks too good to be true if so often is.

But as we Brits only ever appear to be truly happy when we're moaning, Brexit should bring years of happiness and contentment to us all, if only we can ignore the bitter realisation that we did it to ourselves.


Gone Audi mad!
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: Barmybob] #1594877
22/02/2017 14:17
22/02/2017 14:17
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
JonH Offline
Enjoying the ride
JonH  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West

Quote:

Brexit should bring years of happiness and contentment to us all, if only we can ignore the bitter realisation that we did it to ourselves.


I doubt if happiness and contentment will ensue any time soon - their is an awful lot of damage repair to do before we get to that stage.

I've always resented what we did to ourselves in the 1974 referendum.

And you can see from comments made, by Junckers and the like, that deep down the intense hatred towards the UK comes to the surface in droves.
And we wanted to be in this false happy-clappy wealth depleting club ?



No.199
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: JonH] #1594879
22/02/2017 14:31
22/02/2017 14:31
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084
Pontypandy
mr_tickle Offline
Competition Level
mr_tickle  Offline
Competition Level

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084
Pontypandy
I'm guessing that you voted leave laugh


[Linked Image]
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594928
23/02/2017 07:48
23/02/2017 07:48
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Originally Posted By barnacle
Dear Mr Farage,

Congratulations on your success in 'giving us our country back' - some of us foolishly thought we already had it, but never mind; we were obviously mistaken.

It's been some months now since your victory.

Would it be perhaps impolite to ask when I might expect to see the benefits which were promised by your campaign? As far as I can see, the main effect of the exit vote was to demolish the value of my savings and my pension plan. I don't like to complain, but perhaps you would be so kind as to reimburse me for the hundred thousand quid or so by which my pension fund - on any international exchange - has been devalued.

I'm sure the similar increase in the cost of foreign holidays has been a mere courtesy detail, since of course no True Englishman[tm] would ever consider travelling further than Brighton.

I am told that the British economy is doing better than ever. This is hardly a surprise, given the laughably low exchange rates, but remarkably my salary has not increased in similar measure - so once again, my expenses are no longer matched by my income. Food has increased in price; vehicle fuel has increased in price; domestic power has increased in price - indeed, anything which is either imported or which relies on transport within the UK (let's see, that would be everything) has increased in price.

And perhaps you'd care to comment on the uncertainty regarding right of abode in this country (and similar reciprocal rights within the EU)? As someone with an EU-born partner, you will of course have considered these issues - but perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us? I'm sure you didn't intend that this situation would end up as a bargaining chip in negotiations, leaving an estimated three million people in limbo.

Regards,

Barnacle


I like it. It's all about the money.

Whilst the idea of autonomy/supposed sovereignty for the UK was a great vote winning concept for Leave, it would appear that significant 'common people' fell for the verbiage and unaccountable promises and rhetoric the likes of Farage, Johnson and Gove peddled.

Whilst I understand the real outcomes and changes will take time to take shape given we have yet to even leave, I fear a lot of the hysterical flag waving polices and outcomes will never be realised. As for Cameron giving the citizen's the choice to stay or leave, my take is that it was undertaken because like his premiership it was a spineless decision so that the Tory Party could sort out it's own infighting and the fact that he and the Establishment believed the Leave would never win.

If what the Tories are currently undertaking with the decimation and destruction of school funding/education, the NHS, Employment Laws, the Prison System, Elderly Care, Legal Aid etc the move from the EU and the ECJ will in my view exacerbate this decimation of what we valued in our country.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: Submariner] #1594933
23/02/2017 09:51
23/02/2017 09:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
JonH Offline
Enjoying the ride
JonH  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
Quote:


it would appear that significant 'common people' fell for the verbiage and unaccountable promises and rhetoric the likes of Farage, Johnson and Gove peddled.

If what the Tories are currently undertaking with the decimation and destruction of school funding/education, the NHS, Employment Laws, the Prison System, Elderly Care, Legal Aid etc the move from the EU and the ECJ will in my view exacerbate this decimation of what we valued in our country.



That's a very disturbing thing to suggest that those that who voted 'leave' have no ability to make a sound judgement call and just believe the 'spin' of the day.
The inference would be that those voting to 'stay' are the only ones who have the ability to make a sound decision and all others should be discounted and ignored.

In effect.... you are making your own 'spin' to rebel against democracy.





The things that used to be valued in this Country are, I'm afraid, totally destroyed due to 40 years of our wealth going abroad and never to return. Its been held together with sticky tape for decades.
And that is the reason why you will finally have cutbacks in this Country to our 20th century valued support system(s).

And its extremely wrong to single out the Tories for the EU mistake that we've lived with.
You are 'pigeon-holing' to the extreme.
If you want people to really despise then just look across the House of Commons floor to the other party's.
Conversely, there are good honest people on both sides also.



" Sorry kids - we're going to have to cut back on school uniforms and we'll also have to eat porridge from now on because I've just had the family silver stolen from me right in front of my eyes. I watched them do it but couldn't fight it. "

"" I hate you Dad !. Why should I have to be subjected to my future years suffering with great hardship and despair ? !! ""

" Because.. like I said... WE'VE BEEN ROBBED AND WE HAVE NO WEALTH LEFT........... AND YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT INSTEAD OF THE THIEVES THAT CAUSED ALL OF THIS.
The monies gone.. and its not coming back ! "



No.199
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: JonH] #1594937
23/02/2017 10:10
23/02/2017 10:10
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
Forum veteran
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
Originally Posted By JonH
Quote:


it would appear that significant 'common people' fell for the verbiage and unaccountable promises and rhetoric the likes of Farage, Johnson and Gove peddled.

If what the Tories are currently undertaking with the decimation and destruction of school funding/education, the NHS, Employment Laws, the Prison System, Elderly Care, Legal Aid etc the move from the EU and the ECJ will in my view exacerbate this decimation of what we valued in our country.



That's a very disturbing thing to suggest that those that who voted 'leave' have no ability to make a sound judgement call and just believe the 'spin' of the day.
The inference would be that those voting to 'stay' are the only ones who have the ability to make a sound decision and all others should be discounted and ignored.

In effect.... you are making your own 'spin' to rebel against democracy.





The things that used to be valued in this Country are, I'm afraid, totally destroyed due to 40 years of our wealth going abroad and never to return. Its been held together with sticky tape for decades.
And that is the reason why you will finally have cutbacks in this Country to our 20th century valued support system(s).

And its extremely wrong to single out the Tories for the EU mistake that we've lived with.
You are 'pigeon-holing' to the extreme.
If you want people to really despise then just look across the House of Commons floor to the other party's.
Conversely, there are good honest people on both sides also.



" Sorry kids - we're going to have to cut back on school uniforms and we'll also have to eat porridge from now on because I've just had the family silver stolen from me right in front of my eyes. I watched them do it but couldn't fight it. "

"" I hate you Dad !. Why should I have to be subjected to my future years suffering with great hardship and despair ? !! ""

" Because.. like I said... WE'VE BEEN ROBBED AND WE HAVE NO WEALTH LEFT........... AND YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT INSTEAD OF THE THIEVES THAT CAUSED ALL OF THIS.
The monies gone.. and its not coming back ! "



Well, if you want to go back 40 years, why stop there? If you want to hark back to the "good old days", why not go back a little further (and really not much further), you'll find that a vast proportion of "our" wealth actually came from us stealing it wholesale from other nations, subjugating and oppressing their peoples in the process. WE are "the thieves that caused all this".

Still, at least then we knew how to keep Johnny Foreigner in his place.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1594938
23/02/2017 10:22
23/02/2017 10:22
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
JonH Offline
Enjoying the ride
JonH  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
Originally Posted By Jim_Clennell


Well, if you want to go back 40 years, why stop there? If you want to hark back to the "good old days", why not go back a little further (and really not much further), you'll find that a vast proportion of "our" wealth actually came from us stealing it wholesale from other nations, subjugating and oppressing their peoples in the process. WE are "the thieves that caused all this".

Still, at least then we knew how to keep Johnny Foreigner in his place.


I dont say 'the old days' were necessarily 'good'.
And the days to come - they will have elements of good & bad in different forms from what we are currently used to I'm sure.

Yes, even taking into account that history is only written by the Victors, your comment is undoubtedly valid on its historical note.

Whether oppressing the Cornish whilst stealing tin, the workers in the Lancashire Mills, or oppressing those in Mauritius growing sugar cane.
The centre of London does not have clean hands.

I'm only stopping at 40 years because thats the relevant time for this topic (unless 23rd June 2016 is the only relevant time for this topic !)

Last edited by JonH; 23/02/2017 10:47.


No.199
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594939
23/02/2017 11:19
23/02/2017 11:19
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 382
UK
Downhillryder Offline
Making a profit
Downhillryder  Offline
Making a profit

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 382
UK
Isn't it odd how Brexit has polarised people so viciously, people who on other topics are capable of rational argument and understanding of other people's views ?

Barnacle knows perfectly well it wasn't Farage who crashed the pound and his pension. Farage doesn't have enough money to move the markets, neither do the people that followed him or even every single person that voted acting in unison . The only people that can more the currency markets are banks and governments.

I read somewhere it takes £billions to move the dollar/stirling market by even 1cent.

What happened was these big institutions took instant fright that the coverup of Italy's debt, Germany's debt and the trillions of Euros that Draghi and BOE has spent buying up duff bonds in a vast QE effort would come home to roost as the EU fell apart.

The scaremongering BOE, Carney and the chancellor (who was so useless I've forgotten his name already) did, all that because they know that Brexit would be the start of the unraveling of the euro and EU and that the debt crisis that still hasn't been solved. (witness Greece)

We haven't left the EU yet, it will be at least 2 years. We don't know if things will get better or worse. My opinion is that Europe is going to implode when the EU finds it can't sort these debts out inside the Euro. If you are going to predict success or failure by the (as yet unrealized) value of your pension pot then in two years time I suspect things might improve versus our friends in Europe.

My vote is to stop whinging about whats done and lets make the most of it. Get back to being that rational balanced people we are.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: JonH] #1594940
23/02/2017 12:38
23/02/2017 12:38
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Originally Posted By JonH
Originally Posted By Jim_Clennell


Well, if you want to go back 40 years, why stop there? If you want to hark back to the "good old days", why not go back a little further (and really not much further), you'll find that a vast proportion of "our" wealth actually came from us stealing it wholesale from other nations, subjugating and oppressing their peoples in the process. WE are "the thieves that caused all this".

Still, at least then we knew how to keep Johnny Foreigner in his place.


I dont say 'the old days' were necessarily 'good'.
And the days to come - they will have elements of good & bad in different forms from what we are currently used to I'm sure.

Yes, even taking into account that history is only written by the Victors, your comment is undoubtedly valid on its historical note.

Whether oppressing the Cornish whilst stealing tin, the workers in the Lancashire Mills, or oppressing those in Mauritius growing sugar cane.
The centre of London does not have clean hands.

I'm only stopping at 40 years because thats the relevant time for this topic (unless 23rd June 2016 is the only relevant time for this topic !)


Love the idea that London was the centre of this. Just take a look at the centre of Glasgow or Newcastle (as examples) - HUGE wealth off the back of the empire and slave trade.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1594952
23/02/2017 14:15
23/02/2017 14:15
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,786
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Offline
Club President, member225
Edinburgh  Offline
Club President, member225
Forum veteran

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,786
Auld Reekie
Fair point MRS, but then who is "not" guilty?

All European countries, even diminutive Belgium, got in on the act of plundering the world's resources.

And them Romans....well rolleyes


Oh and the Greeks and Phoenicians shocked


BumbleBee carer smile
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1594957
23/02/2017 15:21
23/02/2017 15:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
bockers Offline
Hon Club Member 007
bockers  Offline
Hon Club Member 007
Forum Fossil

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21,071
Chertsey in the Thames
Originally Posted By MeanRedSpider
Love the idea that London was the centre of this. Just take a look at the centre of Glasgow or Newcastle (as examples) - HUGE wealth off the back of the empire and slave trade.


Liverpool was a major slave trade Hub in the UK, some of the carvings on the Liver building attest to this.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594959
23/02/2017 15:40
23/02/2017 15:40
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
Forum veteran
J

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
My point was really that it is a fool's errand to blame "faceless bureaucrats in Brussels"(TM) for the financial woes of this country. Or one bunch of politicians. Though you can be pretty sure that bankers had a hand in it... As most of us now recognise, there never was £350M a week to put into our NHS and there will be many many people who will suffer as EU funding is withdrawn. Some day we may even be able to see accurately just what our net contribution to the EU was and whether it was worth it.

I would rather have remained within the EU, because - although far from perfect - communication, unity and co-operation generally lead to greater overall prosperity (financial, cultural, security) than isolationaism or division.

But, we will now have to lie in this bed we have made and maybe one day I'll be able to look MY kids in the eye and say that it was a good idea.

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1594969
23/02/2017 17:12
23/02/2017 17:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,466
Kent
Indeed Jim, perhaps JonH you could specifically state what your actual issue/s are with the EU that has led to the conclusions you have come to, post 1974? Some of your accusations and your interpretations you have made about what I wrote are incorrect and appear to be bent to the mantra you wish to propagate.

Last edited by Submariner; 23/02/2017 17:18.
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1596080
08/03/2017 17:51
08/03/2017 17:51
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
JonH Offline
Enjoying the ride
JonH  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 754
The South of the West
Originally Posted By Submariner
? Some of your accusations and your interpretations you have made about what I wrote are incorrect and appear to be bent to the mantra you wish to propagate.


Not ignored the site - Ive been away.

The only point I wish to make about 'what you wrote' is that its pretty damning against the significant 'common people', who you imply are effectively thick, and without any capability for rationale thought. And therefore will make/have made the wrong choice.

In effect I could perhaps say that your writings have bent your thoughts and (non factual) statements towards the mantra to which you desire. You've 'dissed' the outies, and branded them all, without a moments thought.


Above all though it is absolutely important that you be allowed to have your own thoughts, and I be allowed to have my own thoughts, in this journey of life.

Even if I would disagree with you, it doesn't mean you should be suppressed.
Differences of opinion and dialogue and rationality normally make for a better end result if both parties are willing to be adult.

Time will tell if the European Club members (UK included at the moment) are willing to be adult.

Peace.



No.199
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1596081
08/03/2017 18:28
08/03/2017 18:28
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
I'm pretty certain that many of the people who voted - on both sides - did their best to inform themselves on the issues, considered their evidence, and decided on that basis. That they decided other than I did, or other than you did, is in that case simply that they have different priorities and therefore arrive at a different result.

Which is all well and good.

However, I strongly suspect - from both previous observation of election results, and from interviews and surveys taken since the event - that the majority of people on *both* sides voted largely on tribal grounds: we vote that way because the paper we read and the TV we watch and the websites we visit tell us that that's the way to vote. People voted on a single issue without considering the ancillary effects (some of which I listed in my initial post, though that list is by no means complete). Even today, we have the delight of watching pro-exit newspapers excoriating the members of the House of Lords for exercising the very rights *for which those same papers* claimed should be 'returned' somehow from Europe.

And the biggest joke of all? If this country wants to trade with the EU, it will have to have many of the same laws as already exist, simply to meet the industrial standards required to allow goods and services into the EU.

I think this rush to leave the EU has been significantly manipulated by a small number of people with axes to grind (and a lot of money to come to them); I think it is the most foolish thing this country has done in years; and I further believe that it will take *years* before the country recovers from the damage caused by it, and the likes of you and I see significant benefit as a result of it. It may never happen.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1596099
08/03/2017 22:19
08/03/2017 22:19

E
Enforcer
Unregistered
Enforcer
Unregistered
E



Originally Posted By barnacle
I expect my pension pot to have to last me for between forty and fifty years after I retire, DHR, given current life expectancies, my family history, and my doctor's advice.


What?? Details, please!! laugh

Re: An open letter to Mr Farage and his apologists [Re: barnacle] #1596108
09/03/2017 08:06
09/03/2017 08:06
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
barnacle Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline OP
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,553
Berlin
It seems that the best indicator of life expectancy is the life of your progenitors: I have two living parents approaching ninety; three grandparents made it past a hundred and the other died at eighty-five of silicosis (he was a deep miner); there is no family history of the usual cancers/heart disease/stroke that often finish people off early; and the average life expectancy is rising about one year for every two or three years that pass.

And I get my pension at sixty...


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.006s) Memory: 0.9214 MB (Peak: 1.1876 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-04-28 04:06:02 UTC