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Retirement #1643054
02/08/2020 12:05
02/08/2020 12:05
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
jimboy Offline OP
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jimboy  Offline OP
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Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
Letter came the other day about my private pension fund. Next January I turn 65 and what do you want to do. I don’t get the state pension until I’m 66, so for some reason I kind of was pleasantly surprised regarding private pension. Been paying a significant sum of money into it for a long time all through my time in the oil industry and very surprised what I have in the pot. smile I’ve been toying with retiring early during lock down. Our son needs shielding, and Ill health regarding my leg, also although I love my work as a care worker everything is done on line now, not the end of the world but they keep changing passwords and training on line is just a mini nightmare, well it is for me. It’s not rocket science, I’m continually cut off and I have to start from the beginning. Blah, blah. The simplist of things are just made more difficult.

I know my job backwards and without sounding big headed, I’m good at what I do, and I find it a pleasure. Had the big pow wow with my wife, she said just retire now, so that’s exactly what I’m going to do. Anyone else on here retired early, or thinking about it?


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643063
02/08/2020 13:57
02/08/2020 13:57
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Online content
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
If you feel relief Jim then yep I would say you've done the right thing. Circumstances have a habit of being a catalyst for big decisions, and the recent months of online activities are a bridge too far for some. Mrs Ed (also a piano teacher) has had to get stuck in with the hell that is Microsoft Teams whose installation took years off my life, followed by plenty more frustrating sessions of password-losing on other platforms.

In my profession, live one-to-one piano teaching has just not happened, and although many continue through Zoom, Facetime, Skype etc. the handful of lessons I've done in this way has been a disappointment for me as the sound - what it's all about - is so poor and subject to latency.

I retired from my school teaching a year ago and have been thankful I did before all this nonsense occurred! But in our job it's quite difficult to retire altogether so I'll go on for a bit yet, "lite".

Time for you now to enjoy quality time with family, your cracking coop and catching up on all those wee projects you've hidden under the carpet over the years - have fun!


BumbleBee under restoration, soon to emerge smile
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643066
02/08/2020 16:02
02/08/2020 16:02
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,358
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
Gripped Offline
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I need some sleep

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,358
S. Wales. Way beyond my means
I'm a a couple of decades off retirement yet, but I agree with the above. You've worked all your life for the pension, so the earlier you can enjoy it the better. No good waiting as you never know what's around the corner. Often it can be better financially to go a bit earlier if the investments come good.

If I had my way I'd go at 55. But unlikely I'll be done until 67... So a way to go yet.

Enjoy Jim. You've earned it.

Last edited by Gripped; 02/08/2020 16:02.
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643076
03/08/2020 09:42
03/08/2020 09:42
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
jimboy Offline OP
Club Member 857
jimboy  Offline OP
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Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
Thanks chaps for the encouraging words. I’m at a bit of a crossroads and was airing my thoughts, lock down at the moment I’ve really no one apart from family to talk to, it’s helpful when you can blether to mates, but I’m not seeing any at the moment. The forum as usual comes up well smile


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643103
03/08/2020 21:16
03/08/2020 21:16
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,531
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
My life on the forum
paul  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,531
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
Hi Jimboy,
I turned 63 in June !'ve been self employed all my life , my son now works in the business and is 30 next year ,lockdown meant I stayed off for almost 2 months ,this did two things ,it gave him and me the confidence ,that he can run the business and secondly , it was great to turn off totally to business and get up in the morning with my only thoughts being ...what will we do today (td by lockdown of course).

ive lost 2 of my best friends to the dreaded C .....and the time away from the biz, has made me realise he !!! what am I waiting for , my pension is more than adequate, and we have 4 properties we rent out that bring in a fair income with no borrowings...so money shouldn't be an issue......

my point being ,if you cam afford it Jim ,what are you waiting for ?? ,you have worked hard ,take the 'me' time now ,we don't know what's around the next bend ...........lockdown has made that clear to me , I'm now only doing 2x 6 hour shifts to make sure everything is ticking along nicely, all being well ,down to 1 shift by October, and by xmas all over me for ...so im keeping my fingers crossed it all goes according to plan .

Enjoy your ME time ...starting now wink


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643110
04/08/2020 01:30
04/08/2020 01:30
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,078
North Wales
Theresa Offline
Former Presidentessa
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Posts: 23,078
North Wales
I agree with the others - if you can afford to retire, then do so and enjoy the time with your family and for yourself.

My Mum and Dad worked hard to have a nice future, but my Dad died at 46 years old, so my Mum was left to face that future on her own frown

You never know what's going to happen in the future, so take the opportunity to make the most of what you have now.

If you were ever at a loose end, there's always new hobbies you could take up, volunteering, etc. At least you won't be committed to having to go to work any more and you'll be able to live a nice, comfortable life and spend your time as you wish to smile

You've worked hard over the years for that pension, so take it if you can afford to smile

Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643138
04/08/2020 19:49
04/08/2020 19:49
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Berlin
I retire in four weeks... it would have been earlier but the lockdown prevented the house selling sooner. I'm moving to Germany.

But my boss has already arranged with the contractors that the company uses to keep me working remotely for a couple of days a week, at least until January when the madness starts.

Best of luck with yours, Jim.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! [b]Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide[/b] <-- clicky!
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643181
05/08/2020 14:47
05/08/2020 14:47
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
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Forum is my life

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Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.
Im sixty two and a half. I tend to take work on when it comes along and enjoy the time off when there's no work. I've plenty of projects and property upkeep to keep very active.

Moving to France gave me the chance to take my foot off the seven day working week life I had in the uk.

Pensions will be very standard for me,so I won't retire. If there's a want for my skills and I'm still able then I'm going to carry on as I enjoy the discipline.

Holidays will be had as they have been had already but not this year.



Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643183
05/08/2020 15:00
05/08/2020 15:00
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,407
Leicester UK
Ballypete Offline
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Leicester UK
Slightly different perspective on retirement from me. I joined the RAF as a boy and left after 12 years and two active tours to join the Police, spending 23 years with them. I got 9 years transfer on my RAF pension and although the 12% police contributions are tough in the early years I was able to retire at 53. At that point all of the restrictions placed upon you are worth it! I wasn’t really intending to work and set up a consultancy as a hobby- now in danger of being busier than before... at least I get to have an opinion for the first time in my life. I will probably still work into my mid 60’s but choosing what I do and when. I feel quite lucky really.


Doris the 1998 Portofino Blue 20V and Zoe the 1999 Alfa Romeo 916 Spider
Bog standard needn't be boring...
Re: Retirement [Re: barnacle] #1643188
05/08/2020 15:51
05/08/2020 15:51
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Online content
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I AM a Coop

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
Originally Posted by barnacle
I retire in four weeks... it would have been earlier but the lockdown prevented the house selling sooner. I'm moving to Germany.

But my boss has already arranged with the contractors that the company uses to keep me working remotely for a couple of days a week, at least until January when the madness starts.

Best of luck with yours, Jim.


Great news you've shifted the house Neil, are you renting in the Vaterland or staying with family?

@Joe, sounds idyllic. When we had our bathroom done around 15 years ago we got to know the "team" pretty well and still use the same spark. I volunteered as a plumber's mate and learnt one or two tricks of the trade. His plumber dad died almost as soon as he retired so he told me "I'm 46 now Simon and no way am I going on past 50". He had already bought a run-down detached property not far from Carcassonne which we actually stayed in two years running for £100 pw! It wasn't "finished" or ready for rental hence the deal. He's been living in Carcassonne since he retired, at 50, and did up another couple of flats, got remarried and as far as I know still happy as Larry.
The chap who looked after his property initially while it was empty was in fact the local spark, and used to tease our plumber by saying "you British are mad, you connect your showers to 10kw and then stand right underneath them in a huge puddle" laugh

@BallyPete, that was a good deal indeed, security-wise, though I suppose you count yourself lucky coming through the force and two stints of RAF action unscathed.

@Jim OP, good thread - it's showing the average age of a few of us laugh


BumbleBee under restoration, soon to emerge smile
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643195
05/08/2020 17:49
05/08/2020 17:49
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
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Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.
I see things a certain way. Our generation,in the main,has worked hard. We've had the chance to make a life and be happy.
Hicups come along and hopefully we can deal with them. Health,injury,divorce etc come and go.

It's a wonderfull world mostly. Our Parents and Grandparents paved our way and that gave us the opportunity's.

Please don't think that France is for everyone! It's not. And most know it's not. Ok for hols etc. But many here have cocked it right up and leave very disillusioned,mainly due to having no ability to learn the language.



Re: Retirement [Re: magooagain] #1643250
07/08/2020 02:50
07/08/2020 02:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,708
Brisbane, Australia
Possum Offline
My life on the forum
Possum  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,708
Brisbane, Australia
I retired 8 years ago next month, just 3 weeks before my 61st birthday when my business partner and I sold our financial planning practice. A wise choice, given all the new rules/restrictions that the Australian Government has introduced to that industry over the last few years. I was also diagnosed with Prostate Cancer at age 60 so this was another good reason to retire. I have had the "all clear" for 8 years now following successful surgery.

My wife and I have been able to travel to Italia and extensively within our fine country of Australia, although somewhat restricted over the last 6 months.

We downsized our house 6 years ago and the profit has also contributed to our "retirement income" as the house you live in today may not be the one you choose to reside in in retirement.

I have kept very busy in retirement, being the Treasurer of a Statutory Trust and Service Club activities (all voluntary positions). Returned home late last night after a yacht delivery of 350 nautical miles from Keppel Bay (near Rockhampton) to Brisbane dodging the migratory whales on the way.

Remember that funeral shrouds have no pockets so enjoy life whilst you still have your health.


Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643272
07/08/2020 19:31
07/08/2020 19:31
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
We're renting a room from the kids! laugh For as short a time as possible, but looking to find a plot and build a prefab house. Then I can get my veggies growing again.

The coupes remain in Joe's care for the meantime, so they may be making an appearance from time to time.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! [b]Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide[/b] <-- clicky!
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643275
07/08/2020 22:34
07/08/2020 22:34
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,019
Kent, South East
Cooperman Offline
Club Membership Secretary
Cooperman  Offline
Club Membership Secretary
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,019
Kent, South East
Jim, have to agree with most of the comments here, I have just turned 61 and have been running my own project management consultancy for nearly 11 years now. I took one of my pensions early but my plans are to retire in the next 2-3 years. If you have the opportunity and don’t feel the need or call to keep working then make the break.
I have to say the last 3-4 months have given me a different perspective on working and intend to ensure I make the most of any opportunities that come my way smile


[Linked Image]
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643280
08/08/2020 08:48
08/08/2020 08:48
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,531
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
My life on the forum
paul  Offline
My life on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,531
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
I'm amazed at how many of us 'old f*ckers' are still on here laugh


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643281
08/08/2020 09:03
08/08/2020 09:03
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
jimboy Offline OP
Club Member 857
jimboy  Offline OP
Club Member 857
Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
Once again thank you all. This must be one of the friendliest and caring forums in existence today laugh As for us oldies, the reason for so many on here is obvious, the Coop, it’s a grown up car for grown ups.... wink

Long live the Coop...... driving


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643297
09/08/2020 08:38
09/08/2020 08:38
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 485
France, Charente
paulw Offline
Club Member 1326
paulw  Offline
Club Member 1326
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 485
France, Charente
I think that I would agree with comments so far - If you have an opportunity to retire early, can afford it and probably most importantly, you know what you are going to do once you stop working - then do it!

I had a good job, that I really enjoyed, but retiring was the best thing that happened. I can't claim to have retired early (4 months doesn't really count), but we planned ahead, bought a house and renovated it over 3 years and then moved here to France once I retired.

We have been here 5 years and work is a distant memory - strangely however I seem to busier than ever, with so much to do! I'm not how I found the time to work! smile


Paul W.

[Linked Image]


Re: Retirement [Re: barnacle] #1643299
09/08/2020 09:30
09/08/2020 09:30
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.
magooagain Offline
Club Member 259
magooagain  Offline
Club Member 259
Forum is my life

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,749
In the coupe.




The coupes remain in Joe's care for the meantime, so they may be making an appearance from time to time.[/quote]
Originally Posted by barnacle
We're renting a room from the kids! laugh For as short a time as possible, but looking to find a plot and build a prefab house. Then I can get my veggies growing again.

The coupes remain in Joe's care for the meantime, so they may be making an appearance from time to time.






https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/

Last edited by magooagain; 09/08/2020 09:31.


Re: Retirement [Re: magooagain] #1643302
09/08/2020 11:05
09/08/2020 11:05
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
Edinburgh Online content
Club President
Edinburgh  Online Content
Club President
I AM a Coop

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,522
Auld Reekie
Originally Posted by magooagain




Originally Posted by barnacle
We're renting a room from the kids! laugh For as short a time as possible, but looking to find a plot and build a prefab house. Then I can get my veggies growing again.

The coupes remain in Joe's care for the meantime, so they may be making an appearance from time to time.






https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/



Yes these ^^ are impressive, saw them a few years back on Grand Designs with Kevin McLeod.

IIRC they send a team of no-nonsense fitters so if you want any mods Neil get in there quick laugh


BumbleBee under restoration, soon to emerge smile
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643462
13/08/2020 16:26
13/08/2020 16:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,698
Harpenden
S
sugerbear Offline
Je suis un Coupé
sugerbear  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
S

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,698
Harpenden
turned fifty this year, intend to retire at 55 as through luck more than judgement I happened to work for a bank for a number of few years and the (non-contrib) final salary pension is quite simply life changing when I eventually receive it.

I really want to stop and start my own business which needs a fair bit of capital to get going, either that or I will work a three day week until I'm sixty.

my girlfriend is a little bit younger than me so I can enjoy the free time whilst she carries on working smile It's just a shame that my plans to spend more time in Europe have been temporarily curtailed.


How to make a startrek widget cable >> http://tinyurl.com/dyje6fy
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643545
16/08/2020 13:26
16/08/2020 13:26
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,377
Kent
Submariner Offline
My job on the forum
Submariner  Offline
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,377
Kent
I'm now 48 and retired at 32. Initially I did not work for a couple of year's then found that I actually 'needed' too for my own self worth and sanity; I did a Post Grad and using it to now work about a day a week. My leisure time is far more important than working so I am a 'hands on' Dad and now my child is older I try to maximise every day by a day out, driving a car, going for a hike, cycle ride, holiday or just reading a novel and having a coffee in the sun etc, the more basic seems to be the better. I don't miss full time work and when my daughter goes to Uni I will be looking to getting out of the UK for the majority of the year.

Last edited by Submariner; 16/08/2020 13:30.
Re: Retirement [Re: Submariner] #1643554
16/08/2020 17:18
16/08/2020 17:18
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
jimboy Offline OP
Club Member 857
jimboy  Offline OP
Club Member 857
Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
Originally Posted by Submariner
I'm now 48 and retired at 32. Initially I did not work for a couple of year's then found that I actually 'needed' too for my own self worth and sanity; I did a Post Grad and using it to now work about a day a week. My leisure time is far more important than working so I am a 'hands on' Dad and now my child is older I try to maximise every day by a day out, driving a car, going for a hike, cycle ride, holiday or just reading a novel and having a coffee in the sun etc, the more basic seems to be the better. I don't miss full time work and when my daughter goes to Uni I will be looking to getting out of the UK for the majority of the year.



Retired at 32 shocked If I had the means to retire at that age, it would be more than likely I wouldn’t be on here or anywhere else. laugh


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643557
16/08/2020 20:21
16/08/2020 20:21
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20,184
Aldershot
PeteP Offline
Club board Member 005
PeteP  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20,184
Aldershot
Agree Jim, I thought I was doing well to retire from a stressful "proper job" at 50.

Like Submariner, I used to do a few hours a week to keep my mind working but nowadays it's mostly leisure stuff.


16VT and X1/9 1500
Re: Retirement [Re: PeteP] #1643558
16/08/2020 20:32
16/08/2020 20:32
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
jimboy Offline OP
Club Member 857
jimboy  Offline OP
Club Member 857
Forum is my job

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,676
highlands
Aye, your needs are different Pete from youre 30s and 60s. Obviously not everybody is the exact same when young, myself, well ,at the tender age of 32 laugh I was,shall we say up for most things.... wink. Well almost.


I'm an old git & happy with it,most of the time
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643590
17/08/2020 16:25
17/08/2020 16:25
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
barnacle Offline
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Posts: 32,595
Berlin
Fortnight to go... though I will be contracting back to the company on an ad-hoc basis.

How does this place strike a a retirement project? https://www.immowelt.de/expose/2m8ap45 - built in 1790 or so, ex manor house, dentist, shop... eight major rooms, barn (love the timbers in that), enough cellars to make a hammer horror film, and 9,000 square meters of land... and unfortunately listed, which rather restricts what we could do with it. Shame...

Neil


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! [b]Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide[/b] <-- clicky!
Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643603
17/08/2020 19:59
17/08/2020 19:59
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,597
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
DaveG Offline
Club Member 311
DaveG  Offline
Club Member 311
Je suis un Coupé

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,597
Lightwater, Surrey, UK
So what draws you to Berlin rather than the delights of say Hemel Hempstead then Neil, family? Or the Tiergarten? Cuisine? Or the Ampelmännchen? wink

Looks like you'll have some great scope for your next project, make sure you sort out the garaging for the Coupe, and who knows maybe a stylish 2 tone 126 POP


1996 Portofino 20vt & 2000 Pearl White Plus
1985½ & 2016 2017 Fiat 124 Spider + XF Sportbrake
Re: Retirement [Re: barnacle] #1643606
18/08/2020 06:06
18/08/2020 06:06
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 868
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
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Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 868
Germany
Originally Posted by barnacle
How does this place strike a a retirement project? https://www.immowelt.de/expose/2m8ap45 - built in 1790 or so, ex manor house, dentist, shop... eight major rooms, barn (love the timbers in that), enough cellars to make a hammer horror film, and 9,000 square meters of land... and unfortunately listed, which rather restricts what we could do with it. Shame...

Neil


That depends on your definition of retirement. Looks like a minimum of 5 years full-time work to me smile

Could be fantastic when finished though.

Have you digested German estate agents' fees?


1997 20V
2000 V6 manual S-Type and 2011 5.0 XKR
2016 Tucson 1.6T AWD
2018 Mazda2 GT
Re: Retirement [Re: neil_r] #1643682
20/08/2020 21:18
20/08/2020 21:18
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
Originally Posted by neil_r

Have you digested German estate agents' fees?


Don't mention German estate agent's fees. I have no idea why (a) I get to pay it instead of the seller and (b) wtf it runs at 7% of the house price.


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Re: Retirement [Re: barnacle] #1643690
21/08/2020 07:14
21/08/2020 07:14
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 868
Germany
neil_r Offline
Enjoying the ride
neil_r  Offline
Enjoying the ride

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 868
Germany
Originally Posted by barnacle
Don't mention German estate agent's fees. I have no idea why (a) I get to pay it instead of the seller and (b) wtf it runs at 7% of the house price.


Estate agents can take x% from both buyer and seller but in areas where available houses are at a premium they waive the sellers part to get the house on their books. If it is a bit of a wreck, they waive the buyer's part to try and shift it faster. It is all negotiable but still way too high for the little work they do. The main problem is the limited number of desirable properties for sale at any one time. People don't move much.

I believe that the law is being changed so that sellers have to pay for their estate agent. I thought that change was actually due already but Homeday TV adverts are still advertising that sellers don't pay fees! I guess the government is too busy forcing dog owners to take their dogs for adequate walks!!!


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Re: Retirement [Re: jimboy] #1643701
21/08/2020 18:12
21/08/2020 18:12
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
barnacle  Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
Forum Demigod

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 32,595
Berlin
Yes, no change till December I understand. Of course, the fee will still go on the house, and I'll end up paying it anyway. But the agent is acting for the seller, not for me, so why do I have to pay him? And why does a job that costs 1.2% (including the VAT) in the UK cost 7% in Germany? There are a couple of thousand houses for sale in the Berlin area but I'm not seeing much of this alleged market forces.


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