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Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1651968
14/07/2021 11:16
14/07/2021 11:16
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Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell
Apologies if I come across as a bit of an Ecotricity fan-boy (partially guilty - but only partially), but for some reason, BarmyBob, you seem intent on rubbishing everything they attempt or have achieved. I'm all for healthy cynicism, but this seems personal, so I'm just trying to balance things out a bit.


Jim, there is no doubt that claims made by the company are laudable but you have to admit that those claims come with a lot of baggage.

The business has an extreme GREEN agenda and peddles this agenda through both their vision statement and their lobbying of government. This lobbying isn't limited to their energy supply business, their green agenda is looking to influence many aspects of UK life, including food and transport. Sadly a lot of this green agenda is based upon deeply biased challengeable science, skewed by a vegan political agenda. Take the beef argument. UK beef and milk production industry has proved it is far less damaging than the vegan environmental lobby would like. So they continue to use, outdated, world beef production figures to try and destroy the industry in the UK. Ecotricity are one of the key lobbyists on this issue, so yes I will remain a vocal opponent of their agenda, despite sharing some similar environmental goals.

NFU Myth buster


The whole "Climate" issue is a fabulous political gift. Any benefits, or mistakes are going to be so long term it is unlikely that much will change in a politicians political career, or even lifetime. This enables them to make bold statements and receive little or no comeback! The worst aspect of all this is that the greenest way forward is being mostly overlooked and ignored. If policy dictated that every new build had solar power, or locally supplied green energy as part of the planning process this would bring the greatest green win for the country. The government does offer green initiatives but getting these grants is not easy. The green grants come from government spending and so it's far easier for the government to push the RO route because that, increasing funding levy, will come from increasing energy bills, not government funding, it's an indirect tax that will rise significantly between now and 2050! The RO agreement has enabled some new energy suppliers look like saints, at the expense of the more established businesses. Sadly these small companies generate a miniscule amount of the total electricity network supply.



Gone Audi mad!
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Barmybob] #1651969
14/07/2021 11:46
14/07/2021 11:46
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My PPI example was based upon it being discovered, in the future, that companies have exceeded their 100% renewables claim. Maybe the Diesel emission's scandal would have been a better analogy.

For example:

Barymbob electricity generate and annual 50 MW of power from our solar farm. We currently sell our 50 MW to the grid so we can then sell 50 MW of electricity to our customers. Firstly many of our customers have electric cars which they charge at night and our solar farm isn't generating at night, so maybe we're failing to deliver 100% renewable, so I guess we are claiming an average annual usage calculation, and not a real world use. Hopefully our customers are clear on this.

Now Let's assume we've done well and we're selling close to our 50 MW to our customers. Then for some reason, either due to our supply issues, or significant increased demand from our customer base, maybe due to more of them buying electric cars or dumping gas at home and going electric, our generation falls well short of our sales. Clearly we would not have supplied 100% renewable to our customers.

Hopefully we are also applying the 7.5% power distribution losses to our sales vs generation capacity.


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1651976
14/07/2021 20:47
14/07/2021 20:47
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BarmyBob, I'm glad we're clear then, it is personal!

I couldn't work out why you would use such emotive terms:- "extreme green" "peddling an agenda" and criticise "deeply biased challengeable (?) science", then use an NFU document as evidence to back that up unless there was something a little irrational behind it. I'm sure you'll spare me the effort of pointing out the irony!

There is, as you're doubtless well aware, plenty of research on both sides of the argument, but I'd be a little careful not to let your own (initially undeclared) bias write cheques your evidence can't cash!

There is certainly a full-blooded (?) discussion to be had about veganism and "extreme" greenery, but I'd rather not take this thread so tangentially off topic.

On the point of the 100% renewable energy promise, vehicle manufacturers set out to con the general public with their emissions fraud. What evidence do you have to support a comparison with Ecotricity's claim made in good faith (and so far, accurately)? It is highly implausible that your scenario would come to pass, given the intense scrutiny that such claims are rightly subjected to (ditto the distribution losses - are you seriously suggesting Ecotricity forgot about those and nobody reminded them?). In the unlikely event that it did happen, I suspect that it would present a fantastic opportunity to plead the case for more renewables to keep up with demand.

I can't help thinking that this is just a bit more "I don't like this guy's politics (or his diet!), so I'm going to rubbish his company a bit more with a scenario I just thought up".

Back to the Corsa (phew!). It - unlike certain other things - is coming home tomorrow, but with no apparent cause or fix. I'll know more when I speak to the guy, but apparently it charged again at the garage's charger to 100%, so the focus returns potentially to our Rolec device.
We've asked a neighbour to try charging his Leaf with it, which might tell us something. As long as the Corsa doesn't leave MrsC stranded, I'll put up with a few teething troubles, but if it goes on much longer without an explanation or resolution, we might have to press the lease company for a replacement.

Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1651982
15/07/2021 08:10
15/07/2021 08:10
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Jim, I would just like to remind you that it was you who advised me to read his book, and it was you that brought up the business in this thread. I would like to believe that the business wouldn't error or fudge figures. But they do already claim, on their website, that the UK has 30% green energy, in the national energy mix chinny

I have genuinely been interested in your thoughts and feedback on living with an electric vehicle. As stated previously I have been considering dumping my dirty diesel and going for an electric on lease, for commuting duties for my last few years at work. I have road tested the E-UP, and the Mini E which were both fun. When I had the garage re-built last year I even made provisions for the fitting a home EV charger. I also came to the conclusion that if I was going EV I would like to have solar installed too, so I had the site survey for that undertaken. However, the loss of the old feed in tariff scheme has made home solar a much more complex market, you must now make a tie in deal with a supplier, This is the local company I was looking at. It is impossible to know if any investment in this area would be reflected on my house price, local estate agent was clueless, so as we plan to move in the next few years the investment would appear to be far too risky, for me.

Sadly despite a desire to follow your lead it does seem that my best environmental and economic decision would be to keep what I have until we sell up and move away from here.

Last edited by Barmybob; 15/07/2021 09:30. Reason: added a link

Gone Audi mad!
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1652001
15/07/2021 15:32
15/07/2021 15:32
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I am starting to consider an EV vehicle as a genuine contender for the next car.

BUT. The impact on the environment to make it. The Life cycle of the battery-likely 70% value of the car when it dies according to car media I recent cost reviews. The impact on the environment for the new battery. The lack of recharging network. The time to recharge. And limited range -especially on a cold, wet, wintry day when you need lights, heaters, A/C and electric screen de-mist- all put me off a little.

Interesting to see and hear those who are dipping a toe.

I can see these as a future option-but only when the range and green damage is greatly resolved. But interesting first steps.

Regards

MM

Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Barmybob] #1652011
15/07/2021 20:48
15/07/2021 20:48
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Originally Posted by Barmybob
Jim, I would just like to remind you that it was you who advised me to read his book, and it was you that brought up the business in this thread. I would like to believe that the business wouldn't error or fudge figures. But they do already claim, on their website, that the UK has 30% green energy, in the national energy mix chinny


Bob, I did recommend Dale Vince's book (did you read it?) and I brought Ecotricity into the discussion in the context of an energy supplier about which I know something (not a lot, maybe, but more than others). But if I'm biased, I freely and transparently admit it and don't attempt to "peddle an agenda" to coin a phrase, pouring scorn on something because I harbour a grudge against a person. I think James Dyson is a c**t, but a) he might actually be very nice and b) I wouldn't say his innovations are a pile of crap because of my personal views on him. I absolutely don't support all of Dale's causes (I'm not vegan and I'm no fan of Extinction Rebellion, for example), but I admire his activism and passion that has found a practical outlet that benefits everyone. Is there another supplier doing more to grow renewable energy? Ironically, because I work for Ecotricity, I now cost the company more than I contribute in bills. Funny old world...

I could be wrong, (and I'm afraid I'm not going to go to great lengths to find out), but I suspect every energy company in the UK will have statistics on their websites that are questionable. There is probably a way to look at the figures that makes the 33% claim stand up, but regardless, I would argue that it's a long way from using a single (famously flexible) statistic to promote a business on a website, to lying wholesale about everything your company exists to provide.


Anyway, back on topic - I'm genuinely glad to hear my absurdly long ramblings have attracted some readers and some debate.

I think you are probably right about your old Audi, Bob, for the reasons you mention. Unlike you, we were in a position where we were about to move to a long-term home, with a solar installation, where paying for a wall charger made sense, although I still think the cost of these is an outrage. Our ICE car was at an economic crossroads and we didn't have too many choices we could afford.

I admit that the long-term, overall cost to the environment of getting an EV was not factored into our decision. We are pretty strategic in some ways, but here our thinking didn't extend beyond a solution to MrsC's commuting problem. Generally - and rightly -, this is something that is becoming harder and harder to ignore, but it's not always easy to be good.

Now that global legacy car makers and many new "agile" players have thrown in their hand with EV's, the automotive world is heading down that road, whether or not it proves to be the future. My experience has told me that much of what is out there is underdeveloped. Vauxhall are clearly learning about EV's along with their customers, which isn't a confidence-builder. And the app that is supposed to provide so much useful information is utter gash, from failing to connect and give charging info, to erroneously insisting that our car requires a service. I hope that the charging network is actually close to a tipping point - it really doesn't need that much to make it satisfactory, although it's going to get a whole lot busier over the next few years.

For the moment, I'm still prepared to continue on our electric journey with Vauxhall, but I firmly believe that in a very few years' time, every aspect of EV's will improve almost beyond recognition.

Master_Mariner - you pays your money and you takes your choice in terms of research about which is worse for the environment over its entire lifetime - an ICE car or an EV.

What absolutely kills range is not heating/AC/wipers/lights, it's motorway speeds. If you home charge and know your departure time, you can use mains power to set your EV battery and cabin to the optimum temperature; maintaining it takes less juice.

Charging times are mainly a problem if you a) don't have home charging and b) can't charge at a location where you would normally remain for the time of a charge.






Last edited by Edinburgh; 15/07/2021 21:23. Reason: Not agreeing or disagreeing with your view Jim but the swearbot seems to have missed this one...e.
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1652079
20/07/2021 10:48
20/07/2021 10:48
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Sorry I.ve not replied sooner, just done a run of 12 hour shifts eat, sleep, work repeat .

Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell
Bob, I did recommend Dale Vince's book (did you read it?


Obviously the title was intriguing, I had a kindle voucher so I decided to take a look. There were some interesting perspectives but there is also fair bit of me against the world. To be honest I didn't last long before skimming through to the end. You can't doubt his commitment to the cause, he certainly places his money where his mouth is. But many of the solutions, to the hugely complex environmental challenges, were naively simplistic. Rather than this manifesto offering compelling argument for the cause, and offering a real platform for reasoned debate, it came across more as a sermon for his followers.

On car news, I have a valuation appointment booked for my RS and I've been offered a few days with Audi electric demonstrator, sadly not an Etron GT. I might take the offer but in all honesty if, and it's a big if, I do sell the RS I'll probably just keep the money in the bank and not buy another toy shocked This would make last years garage re-build a waste of money though!


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1652185
26/07/2021 20:24
26/07/2021 20:24
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I’m chiming in because the “c**t” (Cost? Cart? Cast? Cult? laugh ) Jim refers to now offers EVs on salary sacrifice lease which makes one that bit more appealing - especially because we really very rarely go far and the big Merc does that job and race car towing. I should probably stick with the kids’ little 500 from an overall footprint point of view but one of the kids has nicked it.

The problem is I have absolutely no idea what to get. Mrs MRS currently has a MINI so is drawn to that. If I’m honest, though, I don’t much like the MINI. I’ve only ever had a go in an i3 (which I liked) but they are ugly and getting quite long in the tooth and expensive. I’m a fan of the 500 as an ICE. I guess the thing to do is test drive a few. I had been considering solar panels but it seems hard to find anybody that isn’t doing some sort of hard sell. Why are these things so difficult?

Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1652188
26/07/2021 22:13
26/07/2021 22:13
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I just thought he might have Cornish or Welsh ancestry...!

I definitely think you should test as many EVs as you can or can be bothered. Whatever the dynamic properties of a car in ICE guise, it will almost always be worse as an electric. But there are compensations in other areas - joyful acceleration, especially up hills is a cliché, but true.
Other than that, our experience is of the "white goods" kind - easy to use and effective. Most EVs are also heavy on touch screens and light on analogue controls. If you're going to embrace that aesthetic, you might want to at least look at the Honda e.

I agree that trying to get any kind of solar (plus a battery) just seems to attract endless selling.

Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1652189
Yesterday at 00:10
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A colleague has, apparently, just traded in his one year old Mercedes A35 AMG, and ordered a Vauxhall Mokka E. To be fair the Mercedes has had a lot of issues over the last year, he's probably spent one month of his ownership period in different courtesy cars. The fellow does have a track record of owning Vauxhalls so that element seems to fit. But his decision to go electric has shocked the whole team, as far as I recall he doesn't even have a driveway!

I will wait to see if he has gone for it, or if it is all just a bluff.


Gone Audi mad!
Re: Going electric part 2 [Re: Barmybob] #1652197
Yesterday at 15:04
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Originally Posted by Barmybob
...his decision to go electric has shocked the whole team...


That's Vauxhall electrics for you

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