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Re: F1 championship finale [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1654857
16/12/2021 11:36
16/12/2021 11:36
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Begbie Offline
Ex El Presidente
Begbie  Offline
Ex El Presidente
I AM a Coop

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,293
Sandhurst
Originally Posted by MeanRedSpider
Originally Posted by DaveG
A good summary andyps, and I like the name "Christian Whinger Spice" Brilliant! laugh Another thing I thought was odd was that when they finally started racing again on the final lap, Max was pretty much level with Lewis rather than being in a clear gap behind (not that it would have made any difference). A disappointing end for sure, ruined only by on-the-spot rule changes (I would have been happy for Max to win if he had been in the lead during that final safety car period)


I was taught when doing my race licence qualification at Knockhill that “level isn’t overtaking” so, whilst you shouldn’t fall back too far, provided you don’t actually overtake (get your nose ahead - which Merc claimed Max did) you can draw level.

I loved Whinger Spice too laugh

But Max did get ahead of Lewis albeit briefly, but the FIA said due to the way they were speeding up and slowing down, then no penalty was given, which I get, but surely what is the point in having rules saying you shouldn't over take a car under the safety car.

Also, I've seen salty spice been given to Christian too laugh


Originally Posted by Jonny - After being taken out at Spa
Your car is Usain Bolt with wellies
Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Jim_Clennell] #1654858
16/12/2021 11:50
16/12/2021 11:50
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
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Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Originally Posted by Jim_Clennell
Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal (as was always likely), based on reassurances from the FIA that they will conduct a thorough enquiry into what happened and prevent it happening again. Not looking good for Masi, I suspect.

Very importantly, Mercedes have issued a statement accepting the result and congratulating Red Bull and Max. This allows everyone to move on to changing the system so that this situation cannot arise again.

I've struggled to understand why the teams have access to the race director in the way we've seen and heard this year.
It's like footballers surrounding the ref. Adding drama for entertainment maybe, but we've seen why it doesn't work.

The contact should be one way: if the race director asks you for your input, you give it, then shut up.

At most, teams should be able to submit a request for their opinion to be considered.

All communications can be recorded and released post race to preserve transparency, but there is absolutely no need for teams to pressure officials.


I'm glad in some ways to see the appeal withdrawn - mainly because the championship shouldn't be decided away from the track. I'm not optimistic about the FIA thorough inquiry, however, after their statement last night that effectively blamed fans and others for the confusion. As well as a new race director I can't help feeling they need a new communications director too!


Andy

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Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654861
16/12/2021 17:50
16/12/2021 17:50
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
MeanRedSpider  Offline
Je suis un Coupé
M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Once I saw that FIA had admitted that things weren’t ideal, I was sure Mercedes would withdraw their appeal. A change in outcome wasn’t going to sit well and Mercedes have the moral high ground. I can hear Hamilton being described as “the 7x world champ - should have been 8x”. I too would be surprised if Masi isn’t sacrificed in this. He needed a sidekick like Charlie W had. And, yes, they should stop the access.

Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654864
16/12/2021 18:53
16/12/2021 18:53
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,521
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Posts: 33,521
Berlin
The huge elephant in the room is that as was pointed out earlier: F1 is no longer about which team is capable of building and driving a faster car, but on maximising the cash inflow to the owners. And that helps no-one but the owners.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: F1 championship finale [Re: barnacle] #1654865
16/12/2021 19:08
16/12/2021 19:08
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
M
MeanRedSpider Offline
Je suis un Coupé
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M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,852
Cambridge & Cotswolds
Originally Posted by barnacle
The huge elephant in the room is that as was pointed out earlier: F1 is no longer about which team is capable of building and driving a faster car, but on maximising the cash inflow to the owners. And that helps no-one but the owners.
was it REALLY any different?

Re: F1 championship finale [Re: MeanRedSpider] #1654866
17/12/2021 00:20
17/12/2021 00:20
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
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Pontefract, West Yorkshire
I think it has always been that way, the figures involved have escalated alarmingly, but income has always related to success and success has always related to income. The cost cap may be very interesting in terms of how that could change, especially if new teams are allowed.


Andy

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Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654868
17/12/2021 08:57
17/12/2021 08:57
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,521
Berlin
barnacle Offline
Club Member 18 - ex-Minister without Portfolio
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 33,521
Berlin
I suspect that in the pre-Ecclestone days, the F1 association was there to manage facilities for races, organise the rules, and provide some small prize money for the teams. There was the traditional approach of 'win on Sunday, sell cars on Monday'... but these days the F1 exists in and of itself.


[Linked Image]
Don't get no respect! Coupe Fiat 1994-2000 - an owner's guide <-- clicky!
Re: F1 championship finale [Re: barnacle] #1654869
17/12/2021 09:55
17/12/2021 09:55
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,573
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
paul Offline
My life on the forum
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Posts: 1,573
Glasgow,Near Florence..If only...
Originally Posted by barnacle
The huge elephant in the room is that as was pointed out earlier: F1 is no longer about which team is capable of building and driving a faster car, but on maximising the cash inflow to the owners. And that helps no-one but the owners.


yes totally agree , far far more than before , obviously money has always "came into ' the equation , I think for the past 10-20 years money 'is' the equation , and yes as a Ferrari fan that suited them ( and err me smile ) , but hopefully the cap will help bring some smaller teams into F! and freshen it up , wether they will be able to compete or not is anther matter .. certainly seems to be a few good drivers coming tho , to fill any drives Oscar Piastri for one.

on the Ferrari note , I was more than surprised at Carlos's showing in the car in his 1st season , I thought Leclerc , would have bossed him a bit, but most certainly not the case, very impressed by him


was Paul S,now just paul...Member since Oct 2000,Coupe may be FATALLY injured - :(oh no it's not smile
Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654870
17/12/2021 10:41
17/12/2021 10:41
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 635
Cleveland
P
PaulL Offline
Club Member 1872, Regional Rep N.E.
PaulL  Offline
Club Member 1872, Regional Rep N.E.
Enjoying the ride
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 635
Cleveland
Two incredibly fit men and wonderful drivers.

But I support the one who doesn't have a vegetarian dog.

Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654871
17/12/2021 11:28
17/12/2021 11:28
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
J
Jim_Clennell Offline
Forum veteran
Jim_Clennell  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,603
Corridor of Uncertainty
There's an old joke in F1:
Q: How do you become a millionaire through formula one?
A: Start off as a billionaire

The budgets are so colossal that even most manufacturers struggle to justify an F1 programme, particularly at a time when everyone's heads are turned towards electricity.
So where does that leave the plucky, less corporate teams?
Williams hung on as a privateer for too long and although it was emotional, it wasn't pretty. Thankfully, it looks as though the team has a brighter future now.
I'm amazed Gene Haas hasn't pulled the plug, but if 2022 doesn't bring some success, I reckon he'll go.
And if Lawrence Stroll can make Aston a financial success on or off the track, I'll be very impressed.
Long story short, you need very very deep pockets to play at this table. Not to mention the ability to attract engineers who are borderline genius as well as drivers who are supremely talented on the track and marketing gold off it.
A few decades ago, the prize fund contributed a sizeable proportion of a team's budget - and Ferrari twisted the FIAs arm into the most outrageously unjust division of the spoils, based on the dubious proposition that F1 needed Ferrari more than vice versa. I think the last few seasons have demonstrated the fallacy of that - whatever the historical situation.
But these days, the multi-million dollar partnerships that all teams have embraced are what literally keep the wheels turning. Sponsorship and marketing owns the sport (like most others at the top level), but I'm not sure it reduces the on track drama.
Will the cost cap change the game? I think it depends on how good the players are at bending the rules. And F1 teams are experts at that.

Re: F1 championship finale [Re: Cooperman] #1654900
20/12/2021 18:13
20/12/2021 18:13
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
andyps Offline
Club member 1482
andyps  Offline
Club member 1482
My job on the forum

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,298
Pontefract, West Yorkshire
Zac Brown has said that the cost cap could lead to billion dollar teams - with the amount of sponsorship some of them generate and limited ability to spend it we could be heading towards teams having value similar to football clubs in future. Gives Gene Haas very good reason to stay.


Andy

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