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Weight reduction of a 20VT + sprinting preparation
#16542
02/01/2006 02:30
02/01/2006 02:30
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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As part of my pre-sprinting preparations I am considering how I can shed a few kg off the car. I belive it weights about 1700kg, whereas the wifes Alfa 156 weights 1200kg. The coop is half a tonne heavier! . If the weight of the coop could be reduces by even a fraction of this difference then - wow! I run in an unmodified class so changes would have to be stealthy. But I'm thinking... Radio and CD changer Rear seat belts and reels Speakers Boot lining, spare wheel etc but then what...? ashtray? speedo rings? footmats? badges?! Any ideas, and why is the coop so very heavy anyway?
Last edited by jap; 03/01/2006 00:15.
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16543
02/01/2006 02:32
02/01/2006 02:32
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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er........the engine??????? lol!
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16544
02/01/2006 02:33
02/01/2006 02:33
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Jap, the coop 20vt weighs in at 1310kg!
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16546
02/01/2006 02:34
02/01/2006 02:34
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I believe the Coupé 'only' weighs 1310 kg.
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16547
02/01/2006 02:34
02/01/2006 02:34
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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coup weighs about 1300 kg if i'm not mistaken, it's italian there's not enough metal in it to weigh 1700kg!!!
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16548
02/01/2006 02:47
02/01/2006 02:47
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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In addition to what you've covered, you could remove:
1. Air con if fitted 2. Undertray 3. Fit a new exhaust - the standard one is quite heavy 4. Lighter battery
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16550
02/01/2006 02:52
02/01/2006 02:52
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Rear seats perhaps, possibly look at lighter front seats too. You'll be amazed at how heavy the originals are.
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16551
02/01/2006 02:52
02/01/2006 02:52
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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sorry that was a realy unhelpful post!!!
You could get rid of the bonnet lining mine weighed loads, airbags? might be hard to do. bonnet lifters, light internals just leave the lens', glovebox?
When you say it's standard class does that mean you can't remove the seats and change panels for carbon fibre?
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16552
02/01/2006 02:53
02/01/2006 02:53
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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wheels!.................and brakes! lol!
try finding an aftermarket disc thats made with zinc....bout 10% lighter than standard discs.... every little helps....
also if you can live with it, i belive the power steering rack and abs unit are two heavy items....thats why tvr's don't have them!
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16553
02/01/2006 02:59
02/01/2006 02:59
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Spare wheel Floor mats. As said above lighter driver will always help. Other good one is to remove rear wiper and associated motor
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16554
02/01/2006 03:21
02/01/2006 03:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821 Bath
Fishy_Dave
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821
Bath
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You'll need to be guided by the rules as to what is and isn't allowed. I'm guessing that you will need to keep the rear seats? Bonnet lining doesn't weigh that much tbh, but removing it will possibly help with losing heat from the engine bay. Changing the battery will help for sure, look at the Varley Red Top 20. Grip and handling will get you better times than removing little bits of weight, but I guess every bit helps. I think the battery, spare wheel and other large bits are worth removing, but personally I couldn't be bothered with removing little things like rear seatbelts or head units.
Corvette C6 (manual of course)
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16555
02/01/2006 04:09
02/01/2006 04:09
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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1283 kg on my pink slip...
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16556
02/01/2006 04:35
02/01/2006 04:35
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Ok so maybe I got the weight a bit wrong I could really do with any edge I can get. For handling and grip I now have; AVO -30mm springs KYB rear dampers Koni Adjustable front dampers (just done - yesterday!) Strut Brace Toyo T1Rs For power I am running Gtec 1 Pace SMIC Supersprint cat-back (just done) K&N panel filter 1.2 bar PRV To be honest last season I wasn't too far off ther pace against the TVRs, V8 TR7's a Porsche 911 ect etc... and I had the fastest speed across the line of any of the competition, on any run. I just need to be able to get round the corners that little bit better. I am allowed to change the springs and shocks (done) and that is all. So I am pushing my luck a bit as it is. Any weight loss mods have to be very stealthy. Carbon fibre bonnets would be very noticeable. The seats have to stay I have already changed the cat-back part of the exhaust so there is no middle box so that will have saved a bit. I have no undertray and I have always removed the spare wheel, jack etc. I think I will have a go at; removing rear wiper motor etc - good idea that. remove cd changer and headunit remove rear seatbelts boot lining maybe the bonnet lining I will look into getting a lighter battery - cheers Dave I will also look into sourcing some stiffer anti-roll bars... Cheers for the help so far guys. Any other thoughts?
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16557
02/01/2006 04:51
02/01/2006 04:51
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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jap, I agree with Dave, concentrate on the handling rather than worrying about a few kgs here and there. Uprated ARBs are definitely the way to go, as they are almost impossible to spot but make a big difference . I have uprated front and rear ones fitted on my Coupe, and they have been well worth the cost and effort . The main problem you will have is finding an uprated rear ARB. There was a group buy on the old forum, but otherwise I'm not sure that they are readily available to buy off the shelf . Barbz sells a Dedra unit for the front, but I'm not sure that I would recommend it on its own . I'm going to be looking into weight reduction a bit more this year, as I'm keen to improve my Coupe on the track, and have pretty much sorted the suspension and brakes now. The battery sounds intriguing, but Powerflex bushes are probably the next thing for me . Phil
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16558
02/01/2006 05:07
02/01/2006 05:07
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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How serious do you want to take your car's diet?
An easy one is remove the bumpers and throw away all the foam stuff inside, then put the bumpers back. And don't crash!
If you're really serious, get it up on a ramp and remove all the underseal off the bottom - you'll save a good 20+kgs doing this, but you won't want to go out in the rain ever again
Lift the carpets and bin all the internal soundproofing and stuff too
Take out the air bags (and don't crash)
Drill lots of holes in hidden internal panels - like the doors behind the door cards, etc
Junk the electric windows and fix the window glass in place!
Etc....
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16559
02/01/2006 06:24
02/01/2006 06:24
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Cheers everyone.
I dont think I will be going to those extremes but all good ideas. I might remove the underfloor sound insulation though. That must weigh a ton!
I have found one of the Varley Red top 20 batteries Dave suggests at just under £80.
I have also found a set of Eibach anti-roll bars for about £370. How much was the group buy? I could also sell these on when the time comes when I part company with the motor!
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16560
02/01/2006 07:14
02/01/2006 07:14
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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How strict are your rules?
Can you change the wheels for light weight alloys?
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16561
02/01/2006 07:22
02/01/2006 07:22
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I.m pretty sure you can swap the wheels and tyres. Will have to check though. Is there much to gain from "lightweight" alloys over the 20VT originals?
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16562
02/01/2006 07:41
02/01/2006 07:41
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I removed the thick bitumen like sound proofing in my race car, and the underseal but the sound proofing def weighed more. You need a heat gun to remove. Red top batteries have cr@p durabiltiy and dont hold charge well, if you can get some 4gauge cables (autoconnect.co.uk) and put the battery behind the passenger seat this mounts it low and ofset the drivers weight a touch. Hell I have a set of door you could have, cut the metal out the remove the window motors, glue the door car back and be care closing them, the doors are crazy weight. I guess empty you washer bottle a bit as full it must have some weight in it. rich
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16563
02/01/2006 08:46
02/01/2006 08:46
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I think the washer bottle must hold about 80 gallons.It is humungous. The water in mine still only seems to last a week or two though. Paul
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16564
02/01/2006 09:44
02/01/2006 09:44
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821 Bath
Fishy_Dave
I need some sleep
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I need some sleep
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,821
Bath
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Other small mods to consider are camber bolts (or another method of adjustment) and a decat pipe. I added camber bolts initially to my original coop and set them to approx 1.5 degrees, but hardly noticed any difference tbh. I then removed them due to possible safety issues, and ovalised the top strut hole, putting a c shaped metal packer behind the bolt to keep the camber setting. Again, I noticed little difference and couldn't understand why Doc Frag and others had described such a positive difference on their cars. It did make tyre wear more even on track however. Now that I can compare my first Coop with Geoffs (my red coop) I can see a HUGE difference in set up, handling and feel. This resulted in me beating my best sprint time by 2 seconds, now some of this was down to tyres, but considering this car is approx 35BHP down on the first one, other factors have helped in improved track performance. This is down to a number of things - What I thought was a stiff track set up on my first Coop wasn't even close. My red coop has a very stiff ride, which has certainly helped through changes in direction. Depending on the track of course, it would be worth trying the dampers on an even harder setting than you have now. Practise has helped. Maybe consider an activity or training day? I did one last month in the Clio and it was superb. I'll be doing another one in a few months. The camber adjustment on the front is much more extreme. I suspect the small camber adjustment I made on the blue coop was a step in the right direction but just wasn't enough. It was maybe only enough to counteract the camber applied by the Konis and lowering springs? On the same subject, I wore away the outer 1/3 of tread to the carcass on my 172 last time it was on track! I have now fitted H and R camber bolts to the front, and gone for the max 3 degrees setting and it has really livened up the front, and I can see the shoulders of the tyre are wearing less. What pressures are you running on your Toyos? Have you tried experimenting? What track are you sprinting on btw?
Corvette C6 (manual of course)
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16565
02/01/2006 18:44
02/01/2006 18:44
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Other small mods to consider are camber bolts (or another method of adjustment) and a decat pipe.
You could also get hold of secondhand cat and remove the internals (with suitable breathing protection .. nasty stuff in there). Very stealth.
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16566
02/01/2006 18:47
02/01/2006 18:47
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I think the washer bottle must hold about 80 gallons
Don't be daft - it's 6 litres IIRC, about 1.5 gallons
Unless you have one of these
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16567
02/01/2006 22:41
02/01/2006 22:41
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Other small mods to consider are camber bolts (or another method of adjustment) and a decat pipe.
I added camber bolts initially to my original coop and set them to approx 1.5 degrees, but hardly noticed any difference tbh. I then removed them due to possible safety issues, and ovalised the top strut hole, putting a c shaped metal packer behind the bolt to keep the camber setting. Again, I noticed little difference and couldn't understand why Doc Frag and others had described such a positive difference on their cars. It did make tyre wear more even on track however.
Now that I can compare my first Coop with Geoffs (my red coop) I can see a HUGE difference in set up, handling and feel. This resulted in me beating my best sprint time by 2 seconds, now some of this was down to tyres, but considering this car is approx 35BHP down on the first one, other factors have helped in improved track performance. This is down to a number of things -
What I thought was a stiff track set up on my first Coop wasn't even close. My red coop has a very stiff ride, which has certainly helped through changes in direction. Depending on the track of course, it would be worth trying the dampers on an even harder setting than you have now.
Practise has helped. Maybe consider an activity or training day? I did one last month in the Clio and it was superb. I'll be doing another one in a few months.
The camber adjustment on the front is much more extreme. I suspect the small camber adjustment I made on the blue coop was a step in the right direction but just wasn't enough. It was maybe only enough to counteract the camber applied by the Konis and lowering springs?
On the same subject, I wore away the outer 1/3 of tread to the carcass on my 172 last time it was on track! I have now fitted H and R camber bolts to the front, and gone for the max 3 degrees setting and it has really livened up the front, and I can see the shoulders of the tyre are wearing less.
What pressures are you running on your Toyos? Have you tried experimenting? What track are you sprinting on btw?
Camber bolts worked well for me on the track, Geoff used avo springs I believe cut down to stiffen them and to lower the car even more, it certrainly changes direction very well, but then ride quality suffers a lot.
A lot of the things have been mentioned, certainly putting in a lighter battery would be a good move, and on the sprinting circuit,.. tyre softener is often used,.... works quite well and difficult to spot..... Joe
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16568
02/01/2006 22:48
02/01/2006 22:48
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Hmm... you could fill the car with helium balloons
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16569
03/01/2006 00:49
03/01/2006 00:49
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Trim panels should come off inside i reckon, then passenger seat and bits inside with that. Spare wheel and all obviously, some octane booster, the intercooler sprays would help as well, drop tyre pressures a little bit at the front to help you dig in more at the front when launching, sun visors can come off as well, can always swap the drivers seat for a race one i suppose or a non leather version, have a good pee as well before the run, keep windscreen wash level low just enough to keep your IC soaked, ditch the undertray front and rear if not already done so, heat shield for the turbo can come off as well as they arent much use, get the matts out of the car as well, roof lining could could off as well as the interior light too.... the list can go on a bit more but i think thats extreme enough to get a good few K's off your car, Also saving teh big fryup for after the runs can kep your wieght down as well to help that little bit more, no offence even i would give it a try and i wiegh just over 10stone
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16570
03/01/2006 01:56
03/01/2006 01:56
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I knew my low weight would come to use one day.
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Re: Weight reduction of a 20VT - Its REALLY heavy!
#16571
03/01/2006 02:26
03/01/2006 02:26
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Convert it to hand controls and cut off your legs, must be 30kg saving there, plus you won't need the pedals or gearstick saving you even more. Drive wearing just your pants too
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