Fiat Coupe Forum
- Funded by the Club for the benefit of all owners
- Please consider joining the Club to help keep the Forum running
- Or you can choose to make a Donation
Fiat Coupe Club UK
join the club
Fiat Coupe Forum
 
» Announced
    Posting images


» Related sites
    Main club site
    fiatcoupe.net

 
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 927 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums48
Topics103,726
Posts1,170,181
Members1,666
Most Online39,516
Apr 16th, 2026
Top Posters(All Time)
barnacle 33,794
stan 32,123
Theresa 23,347
PeteP 22,313
bockers 21,083
Edinburgh 18,926
JimO 17,919
Nigel 17,386
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Moving the AFM #457203
15/10/2007 02:37
15/10/2007 02:37
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Hi , was just wondering If it was possible to move the AFM to another position in the intake, after the Inter cooler. or will it not work with being blown on instead of sucking, I have an unichip so could I get a remap to compensate??? thanks. G

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457257
15/10/2007 03:16
15/10/2007 03:16

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



it will need to remain on the atmospheric (pre turbo) side mate.
you can move it but make sure all hoses to and from are of equal diameter and have no step up's or reducers, just my 2p

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457280
15/10/2007 03:27
15/10/2007 03:27
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
DAMN ! ah well cheers mate , as for the reducers/steppers I do use thoes to fit my SIP its unavoidable.

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457288
15/10/2007 03:30
15/10/2007 03:30

H
h2ypr
Unregistered
h2ypr
Unregistered
H



The afm is part of the fuel calculation at the ecu i believe, so moving it further away from the air intake would cause it to react slower to changes maybe?

Ross

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457297
15/10/2007 03:35
15/10/2007 03:35
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Ross was hoping that the mapping would correct it.

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457321
15/10/2007 03:48
15/10/2007 03:48

H
h2ypr
Unregistered
h2ypr
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted by Genic
Ross was hoping that the mapping would correct it.


It would on boost. The ecu still controls it off boost, so would be a tad lumpy on/off throttle.

Ross

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457323
15/10/2007 03:51
15/10/2007 03:51
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
I dont think I have heard of people with SIP's complaing of rough idle's ???

EDIT. the lambda sensor would control the idle as well.

Last edited by Genic; 15/10/2007 03:52.
Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457324
15/10/2007 03:51
15/10/2007 03:51

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted by Genic
DAMN ! ah well cheers mate , as for the reducers/steppers I do use thoes to fit my SIP its unavoidable.

fair enough, i suppose with a reducer, the air flow volume is the same, it's just flowing at a faster rate at that given point

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457335
15/10/2007 03:55
15/10/2007 03:55
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
Just a theory here, but surely moving it to after the intercooler, it will still measure the same amount of air, as it would before the intercooler. None of the intake air is bled off at any point is it? Except maybe for the ICV? No idea how it would cope with being pressurised either, probably leak air everywhere.

I dont think it would like having hot air passed over it either(no idea what charge temps normally are?). Just wondering why you would want to move it?

Cheers

Ben

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457337
15/10/2007 03:56
15/10/2007 03:56

H
h2ypr
Unregistered
h2ypr
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted by Genic
I dont think I have heard of people with SIP's complaing of rough idle's ???

EDIT. the lambda sensor would control the idle as well.


SIP is the one of the causes for concern with idling woes.

Ross

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457345
15/10/2007 03:59
15/10/2007 03:59
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
Actually ignore the hot air being passed over it, just realised they are hot wire devices on 20VT, so heat the air up any way.

Anyone anygood with physics? As Karlothen says, if you are using a reducer, then are you increasing the gas speed over the element? Therefore cooling it faster, inturn making the ECU believe there is more air than there is, making the whole thing run rich?

Ben

Ignore all that, as the air flow meter doesnt change size. I am, as usual, talking crap.




Last edited by benje2; 15/10/2007 04:05.
Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457354
15/10/2007 04:07
15/10/2007 04:07

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



the only reason i'm not to sure about moving the unit "post turbo" is because i have no idea what the max air flow rate the meter can read, obviously the unit is built to meet certain limits within it's day to day life,
i'm really not to sure if it could cope on a day to day basis with sampling upto xxx times the standard flow rate?
add in the fact that you will eventualy get some oil blow by from the turbo seals and the fact that the crank case breather will be venting oil vapour pre turbo..... i'm pretty sure the meter will get messy pretty quickly.
ok you can remove the crank case breather, but i'm still not sure about having a sensitive meter post turbo.

just my 2p

karl smile

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457358
15/10/2007 04:09
15/10/2007 04:09
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Ben I think your thinking what I thought , that the AFM measures air flow not temp, I was just wondering though with a remap it would compensate the change....

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457360
15/10/2007 04:11
15/10/2007 04:11
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457364
15/10/2007 04:14
15/10/2007 04:14

H
h2ypr
Unregistered
h2ypr
Unregistered
H



Originally Posted by Genic
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??


Yeah one side is pressurized the other isnt as much so.

Ross

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457367
15/10/2007 04:15
15/10/2007 04:15
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
Good point there Karl.

Out of interest, does anyone have a diagram of the Coupe inlet system, all the pipes etc. There seems to be hundreds all over the place and its always nice to know what does what.


Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457368
15/10/2007 04:16
15/10/2007 04:16
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
its not pressure its airflow

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457370
15/10/2007 04:18
15/10/2007 04:18
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
Originally Posted by h2ypr
Originally Posted by Genic
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??


Yeah one side is pressurized the other isnt as much so.

Ross


Ahhhhh, but surely, if you have for example, 1.2 bar boost on one side, there must be 1.2 bar of vacuum on the other side?

Ben (Where are all the physicists when you need em?)


Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457372
15/10/2007 04:21
15/10/2007 04:21
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Originally Posted by benje2
Originally Posted by h2ypr
Originally Posted by Genic
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??


Yeah one side is pressurized the other isnt as much so.

Ross


Ahhhhh, but surely, if you have for example, 1.2 bar boost on one side, there must be 1.2 bar of vacuum on the other side?

Ben (Where are all the physicists when you need em?)

Not quite I think, there would be more pressure pushing the air into the engine, than sucking it through the filter

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457373
15/10/2007 04:22
15/10/2007 04:22

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted by benje2
Originally Posted by h2ypr
Originally Posted by Genic
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??


Yeah one side is pressurized the other isnt as much so.

Ross


Ahhhhh, but surely, if you have for example, 1.2 bar boost on one side, there must be 1.2 bar of vacuum on the other side?

Ben (Where are all the physicists when you need em?)



ahhh, good point wink
i'll use the girl friend nagging me to get off the computer for my lapse in concentration laugh

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457377
15/10/2007 04:24
15/10/2007 04:24
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Is does get confusing, but this cheap larger I am drinking is helping laugh rolleyes

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457378
15/10/2007 04:24
15/10/2007 04:24
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
Originally Posted by Genic
its not pressure its airflow


But surely airflow must be related to pressure some how?


Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457379
15/10/2007 04:25
15/10/2007 04:25

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted by Genic
Originally Posted by benje2
Originally Posted by h2ypr
Originally Posted by Genic
Karl , the air flow would be the same before and after the turbo, just one is sucking and the other is blowing??


Yeah one side is pressurized the other isnt as much so.

Ross


Ahhhhh, but surely, if you have for example, 1.2 bar boost on one side, there must be 1.2 bar of vacuum on the other side?

Ben (Where are all the physicists when you need em?)

Not quite I think, there would be more pressure pushing the air into the engine, than sucking it through the filter


i can see where your coming from, but there would be an equal rate and volume of air "pre turbo" and if the air post turbo is being displaced at xxx then the area pre turbo must be replaced at an equal rate......don't you just love gravity laugh

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457380
15/10/2007 04:26
15/10/2007 04:26
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
B
benje Offline
My life on the forum
benje  Offline
My life on the forum
B

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Birmingham
When I wake up in the morning, this will all be solved and will be in simple english I understand! smile

Ben

Right I've just got my old A Level physics book out. I'm going to where I find my best ideas (the toilet) and will return with some important formulae!


Last edited by benje2; 15/10/2007 04:27. Reason: Going to think
Re: Moving the AFM [Re: benje] #457382
15/10/2007 04:26
15/10/2007 04:26

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



Originally Posted by benje2
Originally Posted by Genic
its not pressure its airflow


But surely airflow must be related to pressure some how?



yes, increase the pressure and the flow rate will be faster

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457383
15/10/2007 04:27
15/10/2007 04:27

K
karlothen
Unregistered
karlothen
Unregistered
K



yeah i knew i could make 100 posts, if i talked about some thing i don't know LOL laugh

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457389
15/10/2007 04:31
15/10/2007 04:31
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Originally Posted by karlothen
Originally Posted by benje2
Originally Posted by Genic
its not pressure its airflow


But surely airflow must be related to pressure some how?



yes, increase the pressure and the flow rate will be faster
but the quantity the same??

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457391
15/10/2007 04:32
15/10/2007 04:32
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Genic Offline OP
My life on the forum
Genic  Offline OP
My life on the forum

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,618
Oswestry
Originally Posted by karlothen
yeah i knew i could make 100 posts, if i talked about some thing i don't know LOL laugh
I just got over the 1000 with this smile

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: Genic] #457392
15/10/2007 04:34
15/10/2007 04:34

H
h2ypr
Unregistered
h2ypr
Unregistered
H



Yeah i see what ya mean about pressure genic. Im still thinking reaction time would be down. Regardless of mapping, the ecu would still take longer to detect a change in air flow.

Ross

Re: Moving the AFM [Re: ] #457399
15/10/2007 04:41
15/10/2007 04:41

M
MattW
Unregistered
MattW
Unregistered
M



As the boost pressure is increasing, the air flow will be faster going into the turbo than by the time it reaches the engine. Thats what causes the pressure to rise. Then when the dump valve opens it levels it all out again. Also, IIRC the AFM shouldnt be too close to the turbo, but I've forgotten why rolleyes

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 7.4.33 Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 15 (0.013s) Memory: 0.7303 MB (Peak: 0.9465 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2026-10-15 15:03:21 UTC