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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761458
01/02/2009 18:04
01/02/2009 18:04
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Easy 20-30 bhp gain from a 3 inch exhaust with 5 stud fittment, you could likely run the same power that you are now with 1.3 bar of boost.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761479
01/02/2009 18:25
01/02/2009 18:25
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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tbh i think its down to a boost leak somewhere as got quite a bad idle when ya your driving say at 4k rpm+ then dump the clutch to come to a stand still it wont go back down and idle perfect it bounces around fora while just keeping itself running sometimes  nigel had similar problem and that was few lil oost leaks he found. so gonna check it over and see where and if it is that as its got to be i think as its not flea's mapping as it had that before and it still doing it also counts out the PT map on the unichip cos the unichip is now gone also.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761481
01/02/2009 18:28
01/02/2009 18:28
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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It made 335 at 1.35 bar before though. I was thinking that too but it is an RS @ 0.64 so I wouldn’t have expected much more BHP @ 1.5Bar. What torque did it make at PT? With similar mods to yours minus the cams about a year ago i made 335ft/lb 320BHP @ 1.7Bar at PT.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761486
01/02/2009 18:32
01/02/2009 18:32
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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tbh i think its down to a boost leak somewhere as got quite a bad idle when ya your driving say at 4k rpm+ then dump the clutch to come to a stand still it wont go back down and idle perfect it bounces around fora while just keeping itself running sometimes  nigel had similar problem and that was few lil oost leaks he found. I have the same problem on my Bravo and on Squids 20VT too. Can't be both boost leaks can it? If you sort this let me know.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761556
01/02/2009 20:04
01/02/2009 20:04
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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I've had the same on my car occasionally for 2 years now - I've replaced the AFM, idle control valve, plugs, coils, etc. I think it's down to the SIP personally, it only affects my car for a minute or so after starting, so I decided to leave it as it is.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761623
01/02/2009 21:03
01/02/2009 21:03
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MattW
Unregistered
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MattW
Unregistered
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It made 335 at 1.35 bar before though. I was thinking that too but it is an RS @ 0.64 so I wouldn’t have expected much more BHP @ 1.5Bar. When you turn up the boost past a certain amount you wont get much more power, just stronger mid range  I'd be worried if it was holding 1.5 bar right to the top anyway...
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761670
01/02/2009 21:40
01/02/2009 21:40
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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I've had the same on my car occasionally for 2 years now - I've replaced the AFM, idle control valve, plugs, coils, etc. I think it's down to the SIP personally, it only affects my car for a minute or so after starting, so I decided to leave it as it is. it affects my car all the time no matter how long its been running. wouldnt think mine has anything to do with the sip. mattw, it isnt its about 1.2/1.3 at redline  turbo j, will do if i sort it which im hoping will do. also buddy on the old pt map it also made around 300lbs of torque  so no change there with 0.15 bar more 
Last edited by luke; 01/02/2009 21:46.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761672
01/02/2009 21:42
01/02/2009 21:42
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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I was thinking that too but it is an RS @ 0.64
what gains would i see if went bigger than 64 housing? or would it just end up being to laggy?
Last edited by luke; 01/02/2009 21:43.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761689
01/02/2009 21:55
01/02/2009 21:55
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Not a lot - 10-20 bhp, but I reckon the small exhaust would not yield much more from the bigger housing, which will flow more at the top end - which is where the small pipe will strangle it. I doubt that the car would feel that much faster on the road as the extra power would only be in the last 1000 rpms. You've got a sorted car the way it is now. Personally I would leave it alone and enjoy the car for a while unless you go forged and then GT2871 or GT30, and I would run less boost - but that is only my opinion. If you get all of the forged bits in 'stock' then go for a big turbo and budget for a build when the engine goes.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761706
01/02/2009 22:06
01/02/2009 22:06
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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ive got rods and am in piston group buy but on another note im self employed and things are really looking bad and as much as id hate it there could be an ink black 20vt for sale if i dnt get some decent work this month
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761712
01/02/2009 22:14
01/02/2009 22:14
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Well - it will be worth a few hundred quid whole if the engine goes.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761716
01/02/2009 22:15
01/02/2009 22:15
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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yeah no where near what its actually worth tho, 
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761721
01/02/2009 22:18
01/02/2009 22:18
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671 Newport,south wales
Benny
My life on the forum
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My life on the forum
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,671
Newport,south wales
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You've got a sorted car the way it is now. Personally I would leave it alone and enjoy the car for a while unless you go forged and then GT2871 or GT30, and I would run less boost - but that is only my opinion. If you get all of the forged bits in 'stock' then go for a big turbo and budget for a build when the engine goes. +1 As i said on saturday, a 3' exhaust would help  And imho my coupe dont feel very fast  so i would'nt think you'll notice the extra power  Ben
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761798
01/02/2009 23:40
01/02/2009 23:40
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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Luke in my opinion you have nearly reached the turbo limit anyway. Increasing the boost pressure is only going to increase torque. Your boost level is safe for your setup (non forged). The exhaust made a big change on mine but I don't think you will like a 3" system, when mapping mine Rob said that the backpressure was far too high that’s why I got an exhaust, mine was an N/A exhaust anyway. I don’t think it’s worth changing the exhaust until your rebuild. what gains would i see if went bigger than 64 housing? or would it just end up being to laggy? I have to agree with Si on this one, no point in changing the turbo until your rebuild. GT2871 or GT3071R is a good start depending..... also buddy on the old pt map it also made around 300lbs of torque  so no change there with 0.15 bar more Just shows that the remap didn't change anything power wise, in fact it would be fair to say its lost power if you have increased the boost and the torque has dropped off by 3ft/lb and gained 3 BHP. Not to mention that I personally don't really believe the Powerstation dyno, Dastek is far more conservative when doing the flywheel calculations. It maybe down to the fact that flea pulls out more timing than Rob I'm sure Flea will be over to explain in more detail as to why. What were your WBHP at PT and at PS? What were the dyno room temps at PT and PS? I've had the same on my car occasionally for 2 years now - I've replaced the AFM, idle control valve, plugs, coils, etc. I think it's down to the SIP personally, it only affects my car for a minute or so after starting, so I decided to leave it as it is. I think this is yet another weak point in the Bosch ECU. I’m glad to hear it’s not just mine and Squids cars behaving this way. I didn’t think it was a boost leak.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761821
02/02/2009 00:21
02/02/2009 00:21
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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A very good point there - and worth bearing in mind is that any dyno I have been too has varied within about 30bhp, PT, PTS, Surrey Rolling road etc. You get an approximation, not a dead right figure.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#761952
02/02/2009 09:21
02/02/2009 09:21
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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Just shows that the remap didn't change anything power wise, in fact it would be fair to say its lost power if you have increased the boost and the torque has dropped off by 3ft/lb and gained 3 BHP. Not to mention that I personally don't really believe the Powerstation dyno, Dastek is far more conservative when doing the flywheel calculations. It maybe down to the fact that flea pulls out more timing than Rob I'm sure Flea will be over to explain in more detail as to why. What were your WBHP at PT and at PS? What were the dyno room temps at PT and PS? Interesting, Luke's car went on a Dastek dyno with the PT map which had recently been calibrated by Dastek. It made 290bhp & 258lbs/ft @ 1.35bar. Nigel had never tested his car on any other dyno other than PT Dastek until last year, it made 270bhp on a Dyno Dynamics with the PT map and that's not forgetting he couldn't drive it more than a few miles without the map going off! I have tested 3 cars with PT maps and not one made the same power as they did on the PT Dastek dyno, indeed as Suba has mentioned, he and Highwayman lost around 20-30bhp on their PT dyno runs at SRR Dyno Dynamics. Fact is Jason, until you get your car on another Dyno then we'll really never know what your car is making other than "PT figures"  I think this is yet another weak point in the Bosch ECU. I’m glad to hear it’s not just mine and Squids cars behaving this way. I didn’t think it was a boost leak. Another vacuous comment, how have you attributed this to the Bosch ecu? I have mapped 15 cars now and only 3 cars exhibit this idle behaviour.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: Flea]
#761984
02/02/2009 09:48
02/02/2009 09:48
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Indeed - treat a rolling road as an opportunity to test the car is running right and an approximation of the power that it is producing.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: Flea]
#762078
02/02/2009 11:02
02/02/2009 11:02
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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I am going by the figures luke told me. I always ask for WBHP figures anyway as that is what is actually being measured. Flea we are never going to see eye to eye on the whole dyno thing. I will put my car on the DynoDynamics rollers at uni soon just to compare Dastek & DynoDynamics. Another vacuous comment, how have you attributed this to the Bosch ecu? I have mapped 15 cars now and only 3 cars exhibit this idle behaviour. The question should be why wouldn’t it be the ECU? Well that makes, Nigel, Me, Suba, Luke, Squid all experiencing the same issue. What do we all have in common....A remap on the Bosch ECU, if it was mechanical it should have been picked up by now. I just have a feeling it’s the ECU and if I’m right I hope you can find it & fix it. Not that I'm bothered now if you know what I mean 
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762133
02/02/2009 11:36
02/02/2009 11:36
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Mine is not mapped on the ECU - it's mapped on a unichip.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762143
02/02/2009 11:45
02/02/2009 11:45
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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"What do we all have in common..." How about a 20v turbo engine with similar mods? If it was the ecu then they would all do it, but they don't. For those that do have idle issues, it is the same whether you have a bog standard chip, Unichip or remap.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762147
02/02/2009 11:46
02/02/2009 11:46
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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True but the unichip only intercepts certain address lines to change values. The actual processing/map factors are still Bosch so if it is to do with the ECU I’m certain it would also affect unichip also. If it was the ecu then they would all do it, but they don't.
It’s the same for the adaption, not all bosch adapts the map to an undrivable state. There are people having/had issues with adaption and others not. Nigels was a problem mine is not that bad, Squids in non existent. I don't think the ECU can be ruled out. What do you think it could be then?
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762181
02/02/2009 12:04
02/02/2009 12:04
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405 Castle Combe
Flea
Forum is my life
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Forum is my life
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,405
Castle Combe
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It’s the same for the adaption, not all bosch adapts the map to an undrivable state. There are people having/had issues with adaption and others not. Nigels was a problem mine is not that bad, Squids in non existent. I can assure you 100% categorically that this is purely by chance. Incidentally, what power has Squid made with his GT2871R 0.86?
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762204
02/02/2009 12:29
02/02/2009 12:29
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suba
Unregistered
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suba
Unregistered
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Good point - I believe my unichip only changes the map open loop anyway.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762286
02/02/2009 13:56
02/02/2009 13:56
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,387 Staffordshire
Nigel
Forum veteran
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Forum veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,387
Staffordshire
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we now know the multiple causes of my ECU behaviour - the PT map, whilst giving good power figures, was sufficiently rich elsewhere to cause the ECU to drift - Leighton has sorted it. We also know that my poor idele was caused by two boost leaks, including a fairly substantial split in the intake rubber Neither of these running problems could be attributed directly to the ECU
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762295
02/02/2009 14:08
02/02/2009 14:08
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luke
Unregistered
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luke
Unregistered
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Just shows that the remap didn't change anything power wise Turboj i can ssure you want flea done to my car didnt just change the car power wise 40bhp+ it changed the car totally to drive and how its soo much more responsive low down and its got it all round now and feels like an animal on the road compared to how it was when it put put 298 on the old Pt map. im not getting involved with this not seeing eye 2 eye with u/flea but i will say flea has like he said done 15 coupes now and all he receives afterwards is praise about how hes changed the feel of there car. Look at carphone (DAN) at powerstation on sat. flea managed to get a standard car bunning at nearly 259bhp just from his remap and dan said the car feels great when i spoke to him. turboj if you on unichip/PT map bite ya tounge take ya car to flea and see for yourself! what u got to lose. i assure you will be very happy with the outcome.
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762305
02/02/2009 14:27
02/02/2009 14:27
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eldinho
Unregistered
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eldinho
Unregistered
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it changed the car totally to drive and how its soo much more responsive low down and its got it all round now and feels like an animal on the road which at the end of the day is what its all about! There is always going to be debates over figures!
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762332
02/02/2009 15:00
02/02/2009 15:00
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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TurboJ
Unregistered
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I'm not disputing the work flea has done to your car, it probably is more drivable I did say "power wise" I’m sure he has done a good job I am only going by the evidence you presented here: turbo j, will do if i sort it which im hoping will do. also buddy on the old pt map it also made around 300lbs of torque  so no change there with 0.15 bar more The eye to eye with flea is only about what dynos were used nothing else. I don't have a problem with flea at all. In fact I much enjoy bartering with him  I don't need flea to map my car although I did consider it. My reasons are justified and it has nothing to do with his mapping ability. I will be mapping my car myself (Flea knows why)  Ok all that aside now I am more interested in the not being able to idle issue. Ok so with Nigel’s being down to a boost leak that still leaves me, luke, suba & squid with the same problem. Maybe I should start another thread regarding this..... Either way I would be happy with your results luke 
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: Flea]
#762362
02/02/2009 15:37
02/02/2009 15:37
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MattM
Unregistered
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MattM
Unregistered
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Just to add into the idling debate, my car idled fine, until i fitted the SIP. I have a suspicion it is something to do with the positioning of the MAF
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Re: Guess my new bhp!!
[Re: ]
#762369
02/02/2009 15:46
02/02/2009 15:46
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Matty
Unregistered
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Matty
Unregistered
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Leighton's way is the best way IMHO. Unless of course I Unichip your car. 
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