i didnt say when u get it just rr'd matt after its been mapped by someone. i would go to 20 different rolling roads tomorrow and not want a AFR trace from any because i know its running rite becuase i can see the afr trace from FLEA from when he mapped it few weeks ago

PT map ya car then dont give you fueling trace or probably dont even make a piont to show customer when they pick the car up to say this is how its fueling by the way sir "for your piece of mind"

Well that's just plain stupid. Whats the point in RR'D it if your not going to check the car is ok? Take mine for example. It had been mapped and i have all the graphs for it, but a couple of years have gone by and it all went tits up, running mega rich.

Not plain stuid actually as yes matt a few months down the road when i next decide to get it rr'd i will get fueling trace because it would be a few months later so just check and see its not altering itself. but i state above " tomorrow " not in 2 years i wouldntget afr traces. your not guite getting where i was coming from

it wasn't a dig at you luke, my point was that all rolling roads should check fuelling as a matter of course. It will flag up any issues on the spot and it could be potentially harmful running a car on a rolling road if it is fuelling incorrectly

yeh fair point tbh, because they only do it if you ask dnt they?

hello,

I don't want to be out of the subject, but i ve got one question:
when i read post about boost level, I often read guys who re running only 1b3 on overboost and 1b1 stable(on the red line)...I mean in the case with a gt 28 turbo and with all the bits: fmic, sip, fuel pump...?
Why didn't you put more pressure?

thx chris

not sure what your saying here buddy but i was running 1.5bar and 1.2/1.3bar at redline

I think you will find they always monitor the afr, at least all the ones I used, giving you a print out is a different story, I always ask for a afr print out and I would think that anyone in the know would request one, the people that don't ask probably don't know what it means so it's not important

Actually - I only realised that today when looking at the graphs again, I'd assumed that it would run more rich at the lower boost!

Why - if you ask for a power run then that is what you get!

Because more boost does not always mean more power!

Surely if you are getting a power run, you are wanting to know if your car is running ok?? Checking the AFR is ensuring it is running ok

MattM, i agree, i would ask for a AFR print out but as Suba says that not just a power run

Also if the car has been mapped and the AFR's checked then its unlikely that the AFR's will change for no reason

the only reasons that come to mind is if something wears out or if something like and injector or FPR fails, if something like that happens then its usually obvious as the car will run like a complete dog or go into limp home mode

That's called a fuelling check.

If you are running a boost controller then you can't go into 'limp mode' as the ecu has no way to lower the boost.

But it can reduce the advance if it sees DET (not by much though)

I must admit when I map cars I check it at all boost levels and adjust accordingly. A couple of times people have arrived with the boost turned down for safety as it were, and when checked the fueling is actually worse than if they had stuck to higher boost. Running 12.6 - 12.8afr @ 1.15bar is not a good recipe for the demands of a track, but luckily it starts to richen towards 12afr at the top end where you spend most of your time so probably saved your engine there!

If it was going to go I guess it would have by now!

Dont tempt fate Suba lol said that on my very first 16vt the day i was going to trade it blew up on the way lol

... and these very same people probably get a far more aggressive map, running slightly lean to get a higher headline figure. When these cars subsequently go bang, they just accept that 'that's what happens when you modify cars'.

If you're interested enough to get your car to a set of rollers, then you need to be clued up enough to know that you need a fuel trace regardless of who mapped your car and when

Suba, I can't see your dyno printout through the filter, but is it really running 12.8-12 from coming on boost to the redline!?

Trappy i agree that people should get clued up and ask for the right info when they go to a rolling road

But i get the impression that most mappers unless requested tend to air on the side of cuation, like Flea has been saying, these are road cars and he maps them as such, from the mappers i know they all look at it this way, its just not worth there reputation to have cars blowing up left right and centre for the sake of a few BHP

I would have said the same myself Tricky, but considering the number of 20vT PT maps that have gone south, you have to wonder what he was doing to them. The way the guy was almost worshipped on here was unreal. Even before the horror stories came to light, if anyone asked what a fuel trace was like from them, the answer was always "I don't know, he just told me it was good".

Welformed (famous for always arguing on here ) had one of the first well documented experiences with what happens when you start asking questions there, and then more followed.

Forums do sometimes get a bit gungho with these things but the sort of blind ignorance was just shocking. As far as i was aware, Suba's coop was the only PT map that wasn't subsequently revealed as crap... and it is now looking like it was anyway.

Does anyone have a PT map (Unichip or remapped) that has since been on the rollers and shown a mid 11 fuelling trace?

I get what your saying about Rob and PT and i agree it does seem odd

But i look at things slightly different, i mean Rob is very well known on the Skyline scene and other jap car tuning, and he has massive respect from all corners of the tuning scene

I am quite involved with the Skyline tuning scene, giving advice and problem solving when i can and i have never seen anyone say a bad thing about the mapping work he has carried out, i have seen fueling traces from various cars and they always seem correct and safe


All in all the problems that i can see here seem to be isolated to coupes and nothing else, dont get me wrong i dont want to defend the PT maps saying that it must be something else, but it does seem odd that its only coupes so it makes me feel that there could be a problem elsewhere causing this but obviously there is no way i can confirm that

I look at it as inocent till proven guilty and unfortuantly checking a AFR trace after many thousands of miles cannot be trusted 100%

What we need is a fueling trace from a PT mapped car and then a fueling trace not to long after to see if the trace is moving

As for other cars that have been mapped by Rob/PT well there is TurboJ on numerous occaions and they all seem fine, maybe he can confirm this, and Squid, again several different mapping sessions and they all seem fine, well no problems that i have been told about, im sure there must be others on here

Almost.. Mines high 11's. But as I said. I don't think they did what i'd asked them to which was dual ignition map it to work with the Aquamist on and off.

There are two fuelling maps on my graph - look at both Trappy.

I've always thought that Rob at PT was a great guy to deal with. He was willing to crack open the bosch ecu when a lot of others would not have even tried.

I've since been corrected Suba, I can't view them from work and got the wrong end of the stick

Here is my fuelling trace a month after PT did the map at the figures below (352BHP etc). I was worried about all the lean wondering so I did a fuelling check myself. The reason why I have removed the other data is simple. I don’t know how to use the dyno properly the RPM was wrong and so was the BHP so instead of confusing everyone explaining this just accept the AFR trace as that’s all I went for not interested in power figures as I already know what it made. AFR is fine to me?

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9260/ptfuellingcheckpz9.jpg

Sure, if your definition of fine is "did it draw something or didnt it"

Erm Jason, that really doesn't tell us anything without any scales?? Anyway that was with the RSR yeh at 1.7bar of boost?

I'm guessing it made less power too